More grappling for mma?

[Q mystic]

You grapplers know that going full-out, we also learn to fight (habitually) in a way as to not injure our opponent. Take armbars for example; put one on fast and tighten till tap. But, that's NOT what I am talking about. I'm talking about when someone has me behind the neck with their hand. If I grab his hand and bang up hard on the elbow, it would snap or at least hyp-extend his elbow. He'd be done and I'd be disqualified. And we know that there are plenty of subs and dangerous throws like that, beyond our sportsman conduct, that we know. And plenty we saw in the beginning and have forgotten.

Anyway, could this one day be more involved into mma? Easily. Why isn't it? I'm no top striker, and if I fight one you can be sure he will aim to 'put his fist thru the back of my head'. Look at Tre Telligman. Matua. Knelson. Carried out on stretchers by strikes. I cant help but feel at a disadvantage. I would rather fight Yoshida than Tank Abbott anyday.

The strikers rules went from 12-16 oz. gloves to basically leather bag gloves, so they can still let them go. Grapplers have been giving the same as at practice. I also have a better grip without mma gloves and RNC would be easy.

Just shooting the shit here. Not saying that it should be that way. But fighting a striker in mma would be same as in the street. A grappler in mma is simple- I'll just tap. A grappler-fighter in the street? I'll take the KO.

 

[alexgncw]

fighting a striker in mma is in no way like fighting on the street in fact no mma fight is anything like a street fight anyone whos ever fought on the street would know that ... in mma you have a ton of rules you have to follow while on the street a quick strike to the throat or knee to the balls can end the fight before you get a chance to use any martial arts training you may have

as far as the gloves comment goes ... yes it is easier to grapple without mma gloves but believe me striking with bare fists also hurts a lot more then with mma gloves

 

[Balto]

You grapplers know that going full-out, we also learn to fight (habitually) in a way as to not injure our opponent.

What you're getting at is basically the old TMA versus sport MA argument.

A lot of the striking and grappling in TMA systems is very brutal and efficient. It is intended purely for self-defense and is downright nasty. The problem is that it is so nasty that you can't spar with it realistically. No one spars 100% with eye gouges, groin rips, face/neck bites, small joint breaks, direct throat/eye strikes, etc. The net effect is that although this stuff works in a real encounter, most of the practioners of these arts don't have any realistic sparring experience to back it up. The result is that they freeze in real situations because sparring is essential for all martial artists. They get hurt because they have no idea how to truly apply their nasty techniques against a determined opponent.

The other side of this is sport MA like grappling. Our techniques are somewhat watered down and not nearly as nasty. Take for example the armbar from the mount. We are taught to fall to the side and then finish the hold in order to give the opponent a chance to tap. In real self-defense, it would be better to secure the armbar while still sitting upright in the mount. Then to finish, you should fall to the side as fast and hard as possible to snap the elbow joint.

The advantage of our techniques is that even though they are watered down, we are able to practice them 100% on each other without injury. We KNOW for sure that we can perform our techniques under pressure; many TMA practioners cannot say the same.

All in all, I feel that our training method is better if I had to pick just one. However, a lot of sport MA practioners would benefit from studying some TMA nasty stuff to supplement with. As alexgncw said, sometimes it is better to end an encounter with a quick throat strike than takedown and GnP MMA style. Still I like to train sport MA to know that if my quick throat strike fails, I can still take care of myself.

Just my thoughts on the good point you brought up.

 

[Oktavius**]

what are you talking about?

 

[Q mystic]

I was watching a judo fight and when the guys had a hold of each other with sleeve and collar grips, the one took his left hand, came up hard against the others elbow and hyper extended the arm. No real armbar, but he was done and the other dq'd. Another ex, I was in half gaurd and trying to get the mount. Buddy had his arm bent and was trying to push me down and away. It occurred to me that I had his right hand in my grip against my stomach. His arm was bent. If, with my right arm, I just drove his elbow up hard, it would mess up his shoulder. If I went slow as to make him tap, as a normal armbar, he would get out by turning his arm in. When you look for these they are there. And it would be a win in mma. No eye gouges. And throat chops vs somebody prepped wouldn't work.

It may be unethical, but there are plenty of times where the arm is vulnerable to being hurt and not by the conventional, tie-up armbar. Just wondering if you think we will see thm in mma sooner or later and if we did would that be unethical?

 

[I-Shoji]

what are you talking about?

Lol

 

[Q mystic]

Okay... took me a month or 2 but you don't really need 'all that' control IF you apply the armbar fast enough. Whew. Thats what I meant, thanks.

 

[VanDamme]

fighting a striker in mma is in no way like fighting on the street in fact no mma fight is anything like a street fight anyone whos ever fought on the street would know that ... in mma you have a ton of rules you have to follow while on the street a quick strike to the throat or knee to the balls can end the fight before you get a chance to use any martial arts training you may have

Are you too deadly to fight with rules? I think its more along the lines of you not fighting someone in a street confrontation who's as skilled as these mixed martial artists.

as far as the gloves comment goes ... yes it is easier to grapple without mma gloves but believe me striking with bare fists also hurts a lot more then with mma gloves

Sure does- hurts the hell out of the person who's throwing with bare fists. The gloves are there to protect the hands from being broken. The gloves protect the hands from the face, not the face from the hands.

Gloves increase the surface area of a hit the larger they get, making ko's more common. Bare fists open up cuts easier due to the sharp bones in your fist.