Modern UFC 1 style tournament with limited cross training

[BigMuffler]

Let's say a tournament was held now between 8 competitors of the same weight, each with the cliche "6 months" of MMA training on the top of their base. Obviously a lot would depend on the traits of the individual fighters, but without knowing any more specific information, which of the following would you favor at first glance?

A world class folkstyle wrestler with 6 months MMA training
A world class boxer with 6 months MMA training
A world class judoka with 6 months MMA training
A world class muay thai fighter with 6 months MMA training
A world class BJJ fighter with 6 months MMA training
A world class dutch kickboxer with 6 months MMA training
A world class Greco-Roman wrestler with 6 months MMA training
A world class karateka (Machida type style) with 6 months MMA training

With some cross training thrown into the mix, which style do you favor to prevail?

 

[Huligani]

UberTS via death.

 

[Which Doctor]

Hoyce still takes this.

 

[Hagelslag2]

One of the wrestlers. A lot of them don't seem to have too much trouble adapting to MMA. Especially under the unified rules, I'd very much favor a wrestler to win.

 

[aashmore]

Wrestler has the edge because they can take the opponent down.

Assuming that the 6 months was spent with some heavy sub defense I'll give it to them

Classic "lay and pray" or some solid ground and pound

 

[Otto!]

I would favour the guys with a wrestling base.

Explosive Muay Thai guy with great hair would be second best.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

A world class Greco-Roman wrestler with 6 months MMA training , he would be able to control the fight and the striking guys wouldn't have a clue what to do once on the ground.

 

[mjfan23]

The boxer.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Wrestler has the edge because they can take the opponent down.

Assuming that the 6 months was spent with some heavy sub defense I'll give it to them

Classic "lay and pray" or some solid ground and pound

One of the wrestlers. A lot of them don't seem to have too much trouble adapting to MMA. Especially under the unified rules, I'd very much favor a wrestler to win.

The proper answer is the most athletic one of them will have the advantage.

It is a Joe Rogan inspired myth that wrestling makes the best base for MMA.

You had far more American wrestlers and in particular TOP wrestlers flooding into post Pride MMA and that is the primary reason you saw so many succeed. No one counts all the wrestlers who could not cut it and went no where.

Not saying wrestlers cannot adapt but there is simply no proof that they adapt in any better percentages than other arts such as BJJ and striking arts.

 

[revoltub]

Already happened in japan

 

[ralphus1]

Not worth speculating. The great thing about MMA is that its evolution seems to be happening before our eyes. 1993 seems like the stone age.

 

[GloryOfIran]

Anything that allows double lwhs will beat anything that doesnt. If you take out the wrestler though things get interesting. Judo vs bjj vs muay.

 

[aashmore]

The proper answer is the most athletic one of them will have the advantage.

It is a Joe Rogan inspired myth that wrestling makes the best base for MMA.

You had far more American wrestlers and in particular TOP wrestlers flooding into post Pride MMA and that is the primary reason you saw so many succeed. No one counts all the wrestlers who could not cut it and went no where.

Not saying wrestlers cannot adapt but there is simply no proof that they adapt in any better percentages than other arts such as BJJ and striking arts.

Fair enough. Are you referring to below average grapplers against high level strikers? And below average strikers against high level grapplers? Because I would agree with you

 

[Davemeddlehed]

A world class Greco-Roman wrestler with 6 months MMA training , he would be able to control the fight and the striking guys wouldn't have a clue what to do once on the ground.

Funny enough we've seen several world class wrestlers do so-so in mma. Usually it's the slightly above average wrestlers who end up being great in mma. Aside from Jones, Hendo, DC, GSP, Velasquez, and Couture, you basically get left with guys like Hughes, Shields, Fitch, King Mo, and Barnett types.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Fair enough. Are you referring to below average grapplers against high level strikers? And below average strikers against high level grapplers? Because I would agree with you

Funny enough we've seen several world class wrestlers do so-so in mma. Usually it's the slightly above average wrestlers who end up being great in mma. Aside from Jones, Hendo, DC, GSP, Velasquez, and Couture, you basically get left with guys like Hughes, Shields, Fitch, King Mo, and Barnett types.

Yup. that is what so few understand and why they keep repeatedly making the mistake of saying wrestling is the best base as if that is proven. No its not. Its simply a numbers game and more wrestlers, particularly high skill level wrestlers flooded into this sport than any other art.

There was a thread once about the top credentialed wrestlers to enter MMA and the number off top guys who never made it while guys like Hughes did is staggering. Again it is more about the numbers than anything else.

 

[ocfightfan]

The Judoka because they have takedowns and submissions already in their arsenal. If they split the rest of the time between some basic striking skills and wrestling defense they beat everyone.

 

[Davemeddlehed]

Yup. that is what so few understand and why they keep repeatedly making the mistake of saying wrestling is the best base as if that is proven. No its not. Its simply a numbers game and more wrestlers, particularly high skill level wrestlers flooded into this sport than any other art.

There was a thread once about the top credentialed wrestlers to enter MMA and the number off top guys who never made it while guys like Hughes did is staggering. Again it is more about the numbers than anything else.

That isn't to say Hughes, Fitch, Barnett, and Fitch aren't fantastic grapplers, but as pure wrestling goes they weren't the kind of guys you would ever see at worlds.

I think it's less about being a pure wrestler, and more about being above average at wrestling with a knack for picking up some other things along the way, like submissions and submission defense primarily, or in Mo's case some nifty striking.

 

[Davemeddlehed]

The Judoka because they have takedowns and submissions already in their arsenal. If they split the rest of the time between some basic striking skills and wrestling defense they beat everyone.

Many judoka's have very limited submission repertoires. The reason for this is that sport judo(what is primarily taught anymore, much like tae kwon do) doesn't often give judoka's much time to work. I think once it hits the ground they have under 20 seconds to lock something in or they get stood up by the referee in competition.

The real issue is we haven't really seen what a young judo wiz can do in mma when entering at an appropriate age other than maybe Lombard and Karo, and Lombard fell in love with his hands a long, long time ago. Hawn, Yoshida(big Yoshida), and Akiyama were already old by the time they got into the game. Sokodjou never really got a chance to showcase his judo very often, because for whatever reason he fell in love with living and dying by the sword known as striking. Stun gun seems to have peaked around the high end of the top ten(as in around 8-10 at best). Gamburyan always preferred to do his best Chuck Liddell impression, and it's hard to tell just how much it came into play for guys like Diego, Maia, and Jacare, who are/were basically just grappling wizards in one way or another(Diego used to be one hell of a grappler, even when he was first getting into Jiu Jitsu, the guy lasted like 11 minutes against Marcelo as a purple belt for example).

I'd be interested to see what a 24 year old judo ace can do with 2 years in an mma gym can do.

 

[Venom]

Let's say a tournament was held now between 8 competitors of the same weight, each with the cliche "6 months" of MMA training on the top of their base. Obviously a lot would depend on the traits of the individual fighters, but without knowing any more specific information, which of the following would you favor at first glance?

A world class folkstyle wrestler with 6 months MMA training
A world class boxer with 6 months MMA training
A world class judoka with 6 months MMA training
A world class muay thai fighter with 6 months MMA training
A world class BJJ fighter with 6 months MMA training
A world class dutch kickboxer with 6 months MMA training
A world class Greco-Roman wrestler with 6 months MMA training
A world class karateka (Machida type style) with 6 months MMA training

With some cross training thrown into the mix, which style do you favor to prevail?

Boxer with 6 months of takedown defense at JacksonsMMA.

Proficiency in the appendages closest to your opponent's head will lead to some good finishes. Plus takedown and some basic ground defense could negate opponent's attempts to stifle your boxing, which they most likely can't handle for more than a few seconds while standing.

 

[MikeMcMann]

That isn't to say Hughes, Fitch, Barnett, and Fitch aren't fantastic grapplers, but as pure wrestling goes they weren't the kind of guys you would ever see at worlds.

I think it's less about being a pure wrestler, and more about being above average at wrestling with a knack for picking up some other things along the way, like submissions and submission defense primarily, or in Mo's case some nifty striking.

Yup, as I have said it is the 'numbers' from an art that matters the most, more than the specific accomplishments or the specific fighter.

we always see Shertards on this forum saying, as if fact, that if a fighter like Mike Tyson or some other top guy from another sport came to MMA they would be champ in X months. It does not work that way.

And then when a reasonably big name from another sport does come to MMA and fail you see the same Shertards saying 'see that is proof that art does not translate to MMA'. Again it does not work that way.

It is about numbers. If you get thousands of high level boxers flooding into MMA like you got with wrestlers then you will see many successes. Some of the biggest names you might think might be stars in MMA will fall flat, and other guys you would never think will become stars. That is HOW IT WORKS.

Again it is not about the art as much as the numbers and the person. With a relatively small number of top guys entering MMA from striking art bases we have had a great percentage adapting and successful (GSP, Mo Smith, Cro Cop, Machida, Wonderboy, etc). If we had the flood of top striking art guys similar to the flood of wrestlers there simply is no reason to believe they would not continue to have had proportional success.