Modern fighters sometimes...

[deucesarewild]

I've always wondered how fighters like frazier would stack up in todays heavyweight division

Frazier was not tall, but he was strong and he could get under guys and had a brutal head and body attack. He fights today, I think he is undisputed.

 

[makedansure]

another thing that has contributed to a lot of this is the equipment. companies that didn't understand why certain equipment was made, businessmen coming in and "streamlining" and sending manufacturing overseas.

Almost no one uses bag mitts anymore, which are vital in teaching you how to punch at all extensions. I really haven't seen a good short Joe Louis type puncher on the inside. Almost everyone uses those puffed up 16 oz foam gloves and slaps the bag. Also, catching punches has become pretty tough with gloves that are pre-curved and don't allow for the opening of the hand. Most everyone just ear muffs for defense.

boxing has most definitely regressed. the nutrition may have gotten better (watch this vid if you think athletes have truly evolved somehow ), but the talent pool has deteriorated significantly. I'm a big believer that the top talent today could definitely compete with the top from before, but they would not dominate like they did with long unbeaten streaks.

with more care and attention to brain damage, talent has gone to other sports. not saying that boxing was ever a huge friendly community, but it seems like talent has become very siloed. too much talent is tested too late in the game, too many are concerned with the zero, hitting mitts, and social media.

Trust me, I'm not one of those that can sit through every Ali fight and ooh and aah. but I can't really watch boxing today unless i know the fighter, or the stakes are truly high. Fury Wilder 1 was great to watch because of the anticipation and the clash of two heavyweight kings, but the second fight was a sober reminder of the staggering limitations of Wilder.

I have been pretty impressed with Canelo's development, but he would have become an even better fighter had there been more talent around. Aside from Floyd and his two with GGG, (might be shooting myself in the foot here) I can't really name another memorable Canelo fight. Lomachenko and Crawford could have competed in any era. When you're playing this game, you can't just bring back fighters from the past with today's nutrition, you have to give today's fighters the benefit that the old timers had, which is more knowledge and better sparring partners.

One of my favorites is what Don Turner said:


Basically that Holyfield could have competed in any era because he had balls. May seem crass, but there's a lot of truth and knowledge there.

 

[revoltub]

People have been saying this since I've been watching boxing and its never been true.

They've been saying that since 1890?

 

[makedansure]

also, fighters today are much too front footed, heads are centered. generally, defense is bad, but so is punching, countering. Lack of effective combinations, and then you have the "money" floyd impersonators. Yes, there are multiple styles, but much more less than there were before. there seems to be only a few major real styles today.

another factor is how much more money there is at the top and TV friendly fights. guys like rigondeaux are doomed, erislandy isn't anywhere near the spotlight though I didn't think canelo won that fight.

even GGG's style deteriorated imo from when he came to America and started training with Abel, trying to adopt a more fan friendly style (Mexican Style? and saying that he let his opponents get good shots on him for big drama?) probably because of his lack of marketability due to his limitations with the english language.

 

[spacetime]

And you can't think of any guys from the past who had less than perfect technique?

Why don't you name a top 15 fighter in the 80s with technique even remotely similar to today?

 

[spacetime]

Does TS really refer to the lighter weight as well?

 

[spacetime]

Frazier was not tall, but he was strong and he could get under guys and had a brutal head and body attack. He fights today, I think he is undisputed.

Not only Frazier, Cleveland Williams. And Williams wasn't that great of a fighter (really).

 

[Seano]

Why don't you name a top 15 fighter in the 80s with technique even remotely similar to today?

Thats not really the question. Thats like saying no HWs are any good because they don't all fight like Ali. The point is that every era has fighters with better technique than others. For every Floyd Mayweather there are 10 Gattis. For every Ray Leonard, there are 10 Davey Boy Greens. Not every boxer in the 80s was Hearns, Leonard and Hagler.

 

[spacetime]

Thats not really the question. Thats like saying no HWs are any good because they don't all fight like Ali. The point is that every era has fighters with better technique than others. For every Floyd Mayweather there are 10 Gattis. For every Ray Leonard, there are 10 Davey Boy Greens. Not every boxer in the 80s was Hearns, Leonard and Hagler.

My point is that you can't compare lesser fighters back then with lesser fighters today. A lesser fighter back then stood little to no chance to beat a great fighter, but he did have solid fundamentals. Muhammed Ali did everything his own way, he is the exception to every rule known to man.

 

[Seano]

My point is that you can't compare lesser fighters back then with lesser fighters today. A lesser fighter back then stood little to no chance to beat a great fighter, but he did have solid fundamentals. Muhammed Ali did everything his own way, he is the exception to every rule known to man.

Is he the exception or was he simply an evolution? How about guys like Roy Jones? Or Naseem Hamed?
People have always assumed the era they enjoy the most is the best. Willie Pep fans thought Ray Robinson was jack shit compared to him, for example. I'm sure there were old time fans in Alis era who thought Dempsey knew all the tricks Ali didn't.

 

[spacetime]

Is he the exception or was he simply an evolution? How about guys like Roy Jones? .

Roy Jones jr is exactly the same type of exception. Everything he does is wrong for any normal athlete.

 

[Seano]

Roy Jones jr is exactly the same type of exception. Everything he does is wrong for any normal athlete.

I think he proves that you don't necessarily need textbook technique to be a great fighter.

 

[Absolut]

People have been saying this since I've been watching boxing and its never been true.

Shhh. Don’t ruin the narrative.

 

[spacetime]

I think he proves that you don't necessarily need textbook technique to be a great fighter.

You are talking about someone with maybe top 2 fastest hands ever in his division. Even Floyd Mayweather jr who is lightening fast couldn't fight Roys style. That's how unique he was. And yes, ever so slightly faster than Floyd.

 

[spacetime]

You see it in Amir Khan too. If we look at his striking purely pugilistically and take speed out of the equation, then it makes no sense to use his mechanics, even though I wouldn't call it bad by any means.