MMA Sweeps

[jmay829]

What sweeps do you guys use in an MMA setting? And what guard(s) do you prefer when you're focus is sweeping, as opposed to submitting?

 

[Alex88]

Half guard old school sweep is pretty useful.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

Overhook butterfly guard, deep half, and footlock control are my effective positions for MMA.

 

[jmay829]

by foot lock control you mean like sinlge leg x?

 

[ijustwannasurf]

by foot lock control you mean like sinlge leg x?

Yes. I'm just old-fashioned. No restrictions on reaping the knee in MMA, so it becomes an even more powerful position.

 

[doomy200]

your*

 

[RabbleRowser]

your*

No.

 

[Gojujutsu]

http://www.mmafightdb.com/how-effective-are-bjj-sweeps-in-mma/

According to this, half-guard and butterfly are the best positions.

I personally don't train mma (yet), but notice that a lot of guys in mma fights expose their back when getting back to their feet. I know you wouldn't want to stay and get hit in turtle very long, but I wonder if there could be missed opportunities for turtle sweeps after they turn over but before they stand up? Or at least some wrestling style reversals from all fours.

 

[2COATS]

Half guard has its dangers in MMA. Facing a guy who is good at flattening you out and elbowing could be good night.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

Half guard has its dangers in MMA. Facing a guy who is good at flattening you out and elbowing could be good night.

Preach.

 

[QuicksandBJJ]

A guy who lets a guy flatten him out in half guard and elbow him doesn't know how to play half guard. Rule 1) underhook, rule 2) don't get flattened out.

Closed guard can be effective in MMA..frankly, any guard you use in a no-gi match can be used in MMA if you remember the basic rules:

1) control posture
2) control grips (including underhooks and overhooks)
3) create angles
This is the battle that guys in MMA are losing too much while on the bottom..they are getting flattened out, letting their opponent comfortably base and not playing with their stability, and not controlling grips effectively, and letting the top guy stay squared up on them. It seems like in the guard, the only thoughts are "don't get hit" "get up" or "submission".

 

[JenStark]

your*

thank you man. Sometimes I feel like punching my computer screen.

 

[Higus]

my old school half guard and butterfly are the only ones I can get to work against decent wrestlers. Scarfhold reversal is pretty reliable for me, but only if they've gotten out of my guard. Getting back to neutral is usually a simpler option. Getting hit changes everything and you have to be able to get out of the position as quickly as possible before they set up shop.

 

[rmongler]

It seems like in the guard, the only thoughts are "don't get hit" "get up" or "submission".

those are good thoughts to have.

pretty much everyone in high level mma who has a strategy to take guys down and beat them up or submit them on the ground is very good at riding, alot of them tend to also have folkstyle experience. if your best idea is 'dont get flattened out', its a non-starter, because its very easy to get flattened out in mma. someone with good hips can keep you down while their arms are free to strike, that changes the whole game, you suddenly need to stop whatever it is you were doing and protect yourself.


my contribution: the single leg.

http://vimeo.com/110998883
qrf at 6:30 and 11:10

 

[Zankou]

That's like saying you don't know how to box if you don't punch the guy in the face until he is KO'd.

The problem is rarely one of basic technical ignorance and usually one of fundamental physical inferiority. Bottom half guard is particularly hard to play against skilled wrestlers, since you are basically trying to work an underhook wrestling game from underneath them, and this is a near ideal game for them to counter, suited to their techniques, training, and physical strengths.

 

[Tbone9]

Overhook butterfly guard, deep half, and footlock control are my effective positions for MMA.

Deep half for MMA?? I've never trained with strikes but it doesn't seem like a good option.

 

[kjg1672]

My instructor, a former UFC fighter, tells his MMA fighters never to use half-guard.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

Deep half for MMA?? I've never trained with strikes but it doesn't seem like a good option.

if u actually get deep half like nog does, its great. if you get a half assed deep half thats not really a deep half, youre gonna trap yourself and get hammered in the face

 

[Uchi Mata]

A guy who lets a guy flatten him out in half guard and elbow him doesn't know how to play half guard. Rule 1) underhook, rule 2) don't get flattened out.

Closed guard can be effective in MMA..frankly, any guard you use in a no-gi match can be used in MMA if you remember the basic rules:

1) control posture
2) control grips (including underhooks and overhooks)
3) create angles
This is the battle that guys in MMA are losing too much while on the bottom..they are getting flattened out, letting their opponent comfortably base and not playing with their stability, and not controlling grips effectively, and letting the top guy stay squared up on them. It seems like in the guard, the only thoughts are "don't get hit" "get up" or "submission".

I'm guessing you don't do a lot of MMA sparring. So much of grappling implicitly relies upon your opponent trying to progress positionally that it's easy to forget that when you can punch, he doesn't have to. You say get an underhook and don't get flattened. Well, okay. Why would I be that close to you when I can just posture up and punch you? I don't need to fight for the underhook, I just need to hit you in the face. I can achieve this by clamping my thighs over your trapped leg, pushing your upper body away, and then taking shots. It's very hard to prevent me from doing so using only grappling tactics which is why half is such a dangerous position for the bottom guy when strikes are involved. When I get in top half MMA sparring, I clamp your thigh, make space, and hit you. Only when you reach your arms out to try and prevent me from jacking you in the face do I even bother getting the underhook and passing. If you manage to get the underhook during that process, I post/slam on your head to create space neutralizing your underhook, hit you some more, and try again to get the underhook myself. Repeat.

I'm not saying a traditional half guard game can't work in MMA, but it's really dangerous to try and it's a hell of a lot harder to create anything when all the top guy has to do is push you away, posture up, and blast you. Your best bet is going to be to use the underhook right off the takedown because once the top fighter settles you're in trouble.

This same line of logic goes for a lot of open guards in MMA. Can you play them, and will they work some of the time? Sure. But you're taking a huge risk of getting blasted and if all the top fighter has to do is settle and punch rather than try to pass your chances of sweeping/subbing him go down a lot. I've grappled for over a decade but when I get on top in MMA I'm mostly looking to do damage and punch, passing guard and getting to mount are ancillary to the primary goal of dealing damage. When 'pass and submit' becomes 'maintain and punish' you really cancel a lot of the bottom fighter's chances.

 

[Uchi Mata]

if u actually get deep half like nog does, its great. if you get a half assed deep half thats not really a deep half, youre gonna trap yourself and get hammered in the face

Deep half works pretty well, actually. It's not easy to generate a lot of power punching straight down, the top fighter's balance is really, really compromised, and the bottom fighter can often hide his face from punches to some extent. You may not get clean sweeps, but you can almost always create scrambles which is a hell of a lot better than being on bottom getting pounded in trad half.