MMA Primes < 10 Years (for Jones & Everyone Else)

mkt

mkt

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I keep reading that Jones is only 32 and can't really be past his prime. This is coming from many of the same people who gave Fedor/Big Nog/Cro-Cop a pass for being "past their primes" in their early 30s.

Jones has been fighting for 12 years and did competitive wrestling before that. He's had more than twice as many fights as Reyes. The bottom line is no one stays in their prime for over 10 years. Look at Fedor, Aldo, Anderson, BJ and all other former champs. It's even true for GSP....once he hit his early 30s and had ACL injuries, he wasn't as good...even if he managed to beat Condit, Diaz and a few others in fights that were closer than they should've been. He peaked around 2009-2010.

It doesn't matter how young you were when you started MMA...everyone starts to slowly deteriorate mentally and physically in 10 years or less from reaching their elite status. Some (like Jones), lose their killer instinct. Others (like Fedor and Shogun) lose their desire to progress and fight technically and rely too much on brawling as they age. It seems pretty much impossible to stay incredibly hungry and in an elite mental and physical state for over a decade.
 
Yeah I agree. Jones is just so good that even past his prime he is still undefeated and cleaning out the division.
 
20falarVerdades said:
Yeah I agree. Jones is just so good that even past his prime he is still undefeated and cleaning out the division.
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True, but like GSP, it's not as convincing or impressive any more. Compare the GSP who destroyed BJ, Fitch and Koscheck with the version who had problems with Condit....that's the stage Jones is in.
 
How do you know it's the same people who said Fedor, cro cop, and big big were past their prime? Did you take a poll back then and now and compare in an Excel spreadsheet? Powerpoint? Please share these results.

Also, if you did, get a life
 
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ConditFan said:
How do you know it's the same people who said Fedor, cro cop, and big big were past they're prime? Did you take a poll back then and now and compare in an Excel spreadsheet? Powerpoint? Please share these results.

Also, if you did, get a life
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Simple heuristics and observing "generally accepted assumptions" from years of reading Sherdog. You telling me to "get a life" after that waste of 4 asinine sentences is comedy/irony gold.

Start a thread saying Fedor/Cro-Cop/Big Nog had no excuses for losing in their early 30 and see how many people agree with you.
 
20falarVerdades said:
Yeah I agree. Jones is just so good that even past his prime he is still undefeated and cleaning out the division.
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The same way Fedor was fading but still managed to beat Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers.

Same way Aldo was fading but still managed to beat Mendes.

Same way Anderson was fading but still managed to beat Bonnar.

Same way GSP was fading but still managed to beat Condit and Diaz.

Yes, Jon is still good enough to win despite being past prime. His last two fights were very close though (most think he lost both). It looks like his reign is very close to ending.
 
Jon is looking past his prime because he can't blast drugs anymore.
 
Perrichet said:
Jones past his prime = Jones not on dick pills
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That's immaterial. Roids or not, no one is at their best for 10 straight years. And we have no idea if guys in Pride or even Coker orgs (Strikeforce and Bellator) were/are roiding or not...
 
Typrune Goatley said:
The same way Fedor was fading but still managed to beat Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers.

Same way Aldo was fading but still managed to beat Mendes.

Same way Anderson was fading but still managed to beat Bonnar.

Same way GSP was fading but still managed to beat Condit and Diaz.

Yes, Jon is still good enough to win despite being past prime. His last two fights were very close though (most think he lost both). It looks like his reign is very close to ending.
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Exactly. And the point of this thread isn't about which one is the GOAT or which one was on or off PEDs. The pattern is the same regardless.
 
mkt said:
That's immaterial. Roids or not, no one is at their best for 10 straight years. And we have no idea if guys in Pride or even Coker orgs (Strikeforce and Bellator) were/are roiding or not...
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It’s just a coincidence that he has looked like shit in his last 6 odd fights I’m sure.

Jones hasn’t had any big injuries
 
Yoel is about to turn 43 and has been a pro for 10 years and he's as good as he's ever been. He takes the whole 10 years as a pro thing and violently throws it on its head.
 
Perrichet said:
It’s just a coincidence that he has looked like shit in his last 6 odd fights I’m sure.

Jones hasn’t had any big injuries
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First, we don't know exactly what injuries fighters have had. Years of cumulative small injuries, aches and pains can be as bad as one big injury. And for the record, Jones is reaching his end-prime stage under the strictest drug testing any champ has faced. Most of the other greats were under pre-USADA UFC, Strikeforce or other orgs whose testing standards were much less rigorous.
 
Agreed. It can be just as well a mental as it is a physical decline. At some point, athlete will lose that hunger to become better every day and push himself. That's when they're past their prime.

Jones is better technically, but doesn't have the speed, power or ferociousness that he used to.
 
The XL said:
Yoel is about to turn 43 and has been a pro for 10 years and he's as good as he's ever been. He takes the whole 10 years as a pro thing and violently throws it on its head.
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You missed the point. I'm talking about people who have been a champ for 10 years. There's a whole different level of pressure when you're defending your belt for a decade. Yoel has been mostly fighting elite guys recently, but hasn't fought consistent Top 10 guys for 10 years straight.

And Yoel has never been a champ. FWIW, I have see him fade slightly in recent fights.
 
mkt said:
Simple heuristics and observing "generally accepted assumptions" from years of reading Sherdog. You telling me to "get a life" after that waste of 4 asinine sentences is comedy/irony gold.

Start a thread saying Fedor/Cro-Cop/Big Nog had no excuses for losing in their early 30 and see how many people agree with you.
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Well, those 3 had far more mileage.

Fedor didn't decline until around 35 MMA fights, and hundreds of Sambo fights. He was competing in MMA and Sambo concurrently and repeatedly broke his hands.

Cro Cop didn't decline until he had 30 MMA fights, 30 kickboxing fights and over 50 boxing matches. He also never had any surgery until after the OWGP and before his UFC debut.

Big Nog didn't decline until he had around 35 MMA fights. Nobody had more wars and took more damage than Nog.

They were also the top 3 fighters in the world for about 7 years.
 
Jones is only 32, it's more a case of no dick pills and everyone else evolving
 
Typrune Goatley said:
Well, those 3 had far more mileage.

Fedor didn't decline until around 35 MMA fights, and hundreds of Sambo fights. He was competing in MMA and Sambo concurrently and repeatedly broke his hands.

Cro Cop didn't decline until he had 30 MMA fights, 30 kickboxing fights and over 50 boxing matches. He also never had any surgery until after the OWGP and before his UFC debut.

Big Nog didn't decline until he had around 35 MMA fights. Nobody had more wars and took more damage than Nog.

They were also the top 3 fighters in the world for about 7 years.
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Let's be honest they declined when they left pride and couldn't take whatever they wanted like Pride outright encouraged.
 
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