MMA bozo showed up to wrestling practice

I can understand your frustration torwards someone else's ignorance, but don't let it bother you to the point where you need to vent about it, brotha'. Let him go do his mma-without-grappling-or-really-knowing-what-wrestling-is-about training and move on with your life.
 
aus101 said:
And yet Munoz and weidman defeated Maia by using their grappling base, wrestling, to keep the fight standing. His BJJ just couldn't "control" their wrestling.
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Lol? You do realize you just proved the MMA fighters point, right? BJJ/MMA guys needs to drill takedowns, that is where they are weak. The fact that wrestlers can keep fights standing proves that. BJJ fighters don't need to practice pins or chicken wings, they need to drill takedowns non stop. You probably don't even realize you just proved my point...sad.
 
Jmarc said:
Lol? You do realize you just proved the MMA fighters point, right? BJJ/MMA guys needs to drill takedowns, that is where they are weak. The fact that wrestlers can keep fights standing proves that. BJJ fighters don't need to practice pins or chicken wings, they need to drill takedowns non stop. You probably don't even realize you just proved my point...sad.
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No my point was training one art was stupid and that bjjers shouldn't think that bjj is all you need. The poster you were replying to was saying wrestling could be useful for top control, YOU were saying Bjj trained control just fine.
 
aus101 said:
No my point was training one art was stupid and that bjjers shouldn't think that bjj is all you need. The poster you were replying to was saying wrestling could be useful for top control, YOU were saying Bjj trained control just fine.
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BJJ does train control just fine. Are you saying it doesn't? BJJers in MMA don't think BJJ is all you need, that is why they train wrestling takedowns too. That is exactly what this entire thread is about. MMA fighters who train BJJ don't necessarily need to be wasting their time practicing how to hold a guy down. They learn control in their BJJ training, and the control they learn is better for MMA than wrestling is.

GSP isn't a great wrestler. He has very explosive takedowns, and he has great control. He trains BJJ with the best in the world. How many submissions have GSP had in the last couple years? How many has he even gone for? Very few. He uses his BJJ for control and position. Guys like Maia don't need to train how to hold a guy down in wrestling. They have the best control in the world. They need to work their takedowns, that is all.

There is no point in training how to pin a guy, if you can't get the guy to the ground. That is just stupid.
 
Jmarc said:
BJJ does train control just fine. Are you saying it doesn't? BJJers in MMA don't think BJJ is all you need, that is why they train wrestling takedowns too. That is exactly what this entire thread is about. MMA fighters who train BJJ don't necessarily need to be wasting their time practicing how to hold a guy down. They learn control in their BJJ training, and the control they learn is better for MMA than wrestling is.

GSP isn't a great wrestler. He has very explosive takedowns, and he has great control. He trains BJJ with the best in the world. How many submissions have GSP had in the last couple years? How many has he even gone for? Very few. He uses his BJJ for control and position. Guys like Maia don't need to train how to hold a guy down in wrestling. They have the best control in the world. They need to work their takedowns, that is all.

There is no point in training how to pin a guy, if you can't get the guy to the ground. That is just stupid.
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So wrestling is only good for takedowns? Lets go back to the man you quoted, frank Mir. Couldn't he also have said the same for Brock Lesnar, who used wrestling taught techniques to pound him out, when surely Mirs bjj would of won him the day on the ground? Fact is to be so narrow minded as to assume you know what techniques work in MMA no matter the art is stupid. Was the fighter on that level, did he even know what ground work he would be training before he refused due to "having bjj for ground" Doubtful.
 
aus101 said:
So wrestling is only good for takedowns? Lets go back to the man you quoted, frank Mir. Couldn't he also have said the same for Brock Lesnar, who used wrestling taught techniques to pound him out, when surely Mirs bjj would of won him the day on the ground? Fact is to be so narrow minded as to assume you know what techniques work in MMA no matter the art is stupid. Was the fighter on that level, did he even know what ground work he would be training before he refused due to "having bjj for ground" Doubtful.
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You do know that Brock Lesnar has amazing BJJ right? Frank Mir has great submissions, but prime Lesnar controls Mir and beats him on points. There is a reason Lesnar trained BJJ so much. He didn't learn it to submit people. He practiced it for control and defending submissions, because his wrestling wasn't enough at the higher levels of MMA.

In MMA, the most useful part of wrestling is the takedowns. If you already train BJJ, then you don't need to train wrestling specific moves. You are just wasting your time. There is a reason that we don't see wrestlers go in to BJJ tournaments and just control all of the top guys and win on points. Wrestling takedowns + BJJ control/defense, yes, but not just straight wrestlers. They will get worked by BJJ guys in control. Wrestling takedowns and takedown defense is the only thing MMA guys really need to train. There BJJ is sufficient for everything else.

If you don't understand that, I can't help you.
 
Gonna file this one under "who gives a flying Fu#$".

Your posts are gargbage wrestling fan boy. Go work on your pins.
 
aus101 said:
And yet Munoz and weidman defeated Maia by using their grappling base, wrestling, to keep the fight standing. His BJJ just couldn't "control" their wrestling.
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I think K-1 Maia helped to beat himself in those fights.
 
I wrestled in School for 5 years. I am a blue belt now, and also 0-1 in MMA. I started helping out with the wrestling team of the school I substitute teach at. I was not a very good wrestler in school either.

I did fine against almost all of the kids standing, and was more than competitive. Against the lower guys I could get out, and crossface cradle all day. I was lost against the good kids top and bottom, because I was now instinctively going to my back and getting guard.
 
Shiiiiiit you're telling me that guys wrestle on the ground!! Thatsssss GAY unless I can punch em in the face!!!
 
Dirty Holt said:
The guy just wanted to drill takedowns. That is how lots of people train, even at the college or Olympic level. If some guys are drilling shit that you arent working on or that isnt part of your style, you drill your own shit. Thats how every practice at the OTC is. I never once drilled a damn chicken wing there for 4 years.
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/thread?
 
Thrawn33 said:
Despite his rather snobbish delivery I can kind of see where the TS is coming from.

Imagine if you were in your BJJ class and a Judoka showed up and only wanted to work on subs applicable in a Judo situation.

Or if a wrestler showed up in Judo only for the throws applicable to his sport.

Or a Judoka showed up in wrestling and only wanted to work turn-overs since he had his own way of taking people down

Or you were in any of the above "big three of grappling" classes and some MMAist only wanted to drill what was applicable to him.

If you're the guest from another art (or mixed art), you go along with what the class is doing out of respect for them letting you train at all, ask for assistance when the class is done.

Not saying TS is right in his thought process, but he does bring up a point.
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In my Judo class we had a Muay Thai guy who wanted to learn some ground take a class. We did throws before the ground and every time the instructor showed a throw he would tell the instructor that the grips and positioning felt 'like zhit' and he wanted to do them all from a MT clinch.
 
Sadly... no one gives a shit about matwork even within wrestling anymore lol...
 
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