Law Mississippi Abortion Law in SCOTUS: Roe v. Wade in the Crosshairs

[Mike]

Thanks for this post. Most people are familiar with the phrase "power corrupts" but the corollary is that, in my experience, a complete lack of power corrupts much more quickly and absolutely.

Most of the people I've argued about this with didn't grow up in poverty, to see the reality of that life and how little help there actually is. Because we spend lots of money there's a vague idea there are resources in place to help the poor. Bit they are limited and the people gaming the system are getting the majority of that aid. And taking emotion completely out of it and just looking at statistics, these people by and large have negative outcomes. These are often the same people right wingers want thrown in prison or exiled from the country when they grow up.

I hope you're not saying the solution would be to have aborted you and your sibling? I don't think you are.

I believe in God whose son is Jesus Christ, and our only hope is in him to save us from our sins and to help us get through the hardships of life. Without him, I would not be here today either, and I didn't have it as hard as you and your mother

My mother had one miscarriage and one abortion. I have no idea how we would have survived with 4 children in the house and 1 source of income. We struggled as it was with just me and her until my brother was born when I was 18 and almost out of the house. Forget luxuries, we barely had a roof over our head and sometimes didn't have enough food to eat. That's not getting into the horrible things that happened to the both of us because we were frequently in vulnerable situations and forced to trust people that abused us.

I'm also an extreme outlier in surviving as well as I have. I should be dead, homeless or in prison multiple times over.

 

[Oedad]

So I’ve decided to keep my baby, every check up things are absolutely perfect, genetic testing, perfect. I’m shot in an armed robbery and I die and my 8.5 month fetus dies, 100% he could have been delivered and survived outside my body. What is the guy who shot me charged with? Just my murder?

In states that do not have a fetal homicide law he just gets charged with the 1 murder.

ACLU has an article on why is opposes fetal homicide laws

https://www.aclu.org/other/whats-wrong-fetal-rights

 

[Dr Curtis Love]

maybe he has a micro peen and the condoms don't fit. I wonder if they are micro condoms, similar to the giant sized ones I use.

They do. They're called snug fit. Or so I'm told...

 

[sickc0d3r]

How is it forcing her? She chose to become pregnant. That is on her. Her not wanting to be pregnant is her issue and her responsibility which is taking away the life of a human. Don’t want to give birth? Well you probably should have done something about that then

I always hear this from the “pro life” folks. They really care about them fetuses, huh? I guess it’s easy when it costs them nothing and they can stop giving a shit as soon as they’re born.

 

[ElKarlo]

I always hear this from the “pro life” folks. They really care about them fetuses, huh? I guess it’s easy when it costs them nothing and they can stop giving a shit as soon as they’re born.

I’d you don’t want to take the kid, don’t get pregnant. Abortion was not intended as birth control.
Sorry that killing your unborn child is seen as a selfish and awful way of getting out of having to raise a human. And good try with trying to rope others into being responsible for someone’s actions

 

[Papi Chulo]

 

[sickc0d3r]

Again, a trillion dollars in welfare.
You're saying "give more money" but the foundation of your argument seems to be that government doesn't know how to spend money (which, to be fair, is a very reasonable position).

But it's also very rare to find an American on the left who argues from the position or perspective of the unborn. There seems to be a lack compassion that isn't written down on a pre-existing civil rights script - so, rarely is value of any perspective but the mother's considered.
The foster care system being riddled with abusers is hardly a surprise - monsters like that will always be attracted to positions of authority over kids. But that's not the sort of position that the left takes on almost any other issue.
I mean, think about the logic here. Allowing these children to exist would be "bad for those parents, and society as a whole because they often have poor outcomes and unpleasant lives."
But consider that position when you're arguing with someone who understands the unborn as human life.

I saw someone mention illegal immigration earlier, so imagine the conservative argument against illegal immigration was "illegal immigrants often have poor outcomes and unpleasant lives - it's better for everyone if we kill them as soon as we catch them".
Now, I'm sure there are those who make that argument, but it's hardly a mainstream right-wing position.
Or, to take it to an even more absurd extreme, "Mexico's a pretty shitty place, most people there have poor outcomes and unpleasant lives. Plus, Mexicans keep illegally immigrating here - let's just nuke them now and save everyone the suffering later".
"The American white supremacist justice system is riddled with racist cops and tilted courts. So, black people are going to have poor outcomes and unpleasant lives - might as well just make it legal to gun them down in the streets."

It's a really sticky conversation, because one group of people doesn't seem to view abortion as the termination of genuine life, and without the motivation implicit in that perspective, they're going to have trouble finding a compromise with anyone from the group that does see it as the termination of genuine life.

Where are you getting the trillion dollar number from? 12% of the federal budget is “welfare”. I’m guessing there are other things that can (and should) be included. But a trillion? Towards helping families with kids?

Anyway, you’re talking about welfare, but working, middle class types don’t qualify. And 20 somethings with jobs make up a large portion of the people having abortions.
There’s a tax deduction for kids and public schools, that’s it. My health insurance deductible is more than twice the child care tax credit, my oop max is more than triple. In 5 years with two kids (5 and 3) we’ve reached that max every year. Hell, just having a kid is 25k. We also paid 2k+ A month for day care for 3 years. I am lucky that my wife and I are both well paid with flexible work from home options, so we can handle it. But it gives us plenty of reasons to sympathize with others.

Point is, if we care so much about unborn kids, why don’t we care about making the culture and the infrastructure surrounding those kids as robust and helpful to families as possible? As soon as a fetus is born the pro life advocates are ghosts.
Lives apparently only matter when they don’t inconvenience us, and I’m addressing people who think abortions aren’t a big deal as well. They are a big deal. We aren’t addressing it by forcing people to have kids they don’t want, imo. We should be fostering a culture that makes people want those kids. That’s my take, I hate this subject, actually. Makes me kind of sick.

 

[sickc0d3r]

I’d you don’t want to take the kid, don’t get pregnant. Abortion was not intended as birth control.
Sorry that killing your unborn child is seen as a selfish and awful way of getting out of having to raise a human. And good try with trying to rope others into being responsible for someone’s actions

You’re taking responsibility by getting involved with the mother’s decision. And then abandoning it like a deadbeat dad. Stop pretending you give a shit about the “human life” at stake, and I’ll stop asking you to be responsible for it.

 

[skold]

I’d you don’t want to take the kid, don’t get pregnant. Abortion was not intended as birth control.
Sorry that killing your unborn child is seen as a selfish and awful way of getting out of having to raise a human. And good try with trying to rope others into being responsible for someone’s actions

Conservatives are shameless hypocrites. Stop lying no one is buying this bullshit. If conservatives truly cared about children, they would be pro-maternity leave etc etc. However they are only pro punishing women for having sex, which is why when Republicans knock up their mistresses, they suddenly forget about this empty virtue signaling of theirs.

Go live in Saudi Arabia for your conservative Utopia.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Conservatives are shameless hypocrites. Stop lying no one is buying this bullshit. If conservatives truly cared about children, they would be pro-maternity leave etc etc. However they are only pro punishing women for having sex, which is why when Republicans knock up their mistresses, they suddenly forget about this empty virtue signaling of theirs.

Go live in Saudi Arabia for your conservative Utopia.

Go live in North Korea for your 9 month abortion fetishes.

 

[cooks1]

So, not only are there multiple options, there are options for all budgets.

Give me the excuse why condoms aren't an easily affordable solution for everyone, and why it's somehow a struggle for people to use them to prevent pregnancy. This idea that abortions are necessary because we're just not there yet with birth control methods, is absurd. It comes down to personal responsibility.

I don’t know if anywhere in North America that doesn’t have a place to get free condoms (planned parenthood, etc)

Condoms are fantastic. They only have 1 major weakness that I can see. And that's that men have to wear them. If women were the ones that could wear condoms, I suspect abortions would be 95% lower than they are.

 

[Papi Chulo]

Conservatives are shameless hypocrites. Stop lying no one is buying this bullshit. If conservatives truly cared about children, they would be pro-maternity leave etc etc. However they are only pro punishing women for having sex, which is why when Republicans knock up their mistresses, they suddenly forget about this empty virtue signaling of theirs.

Go live in Saudi Arabia for your conservative Utopia.

Nobody is supposed to pay you as a mother to care for your children. That's your job and you just do it.

 

[ElKarlo]

Conservatives are shameless hypocrites. Stop lying no one is buying this bullshit. If conservatives truly cared about children, they would be pro-maternity leave etc etc. However they are only pro punishing women for having sex, which is why when Republicans knock up their mistresses, they suddenly forget about this empty virtue signaling of theirs.

Go live in Saudi Arabia for your conservative Utopia.

Don’t worry no man can get drunk enough to get you pregnant. He’d die of alcohol poisoning before being able to do the deed with you

 

[ElKarlo]

You’re taking responsibility by getting involved with the mother’s decision. And then abandoning it like a deadbeat dad. Stop pretending you give a shit about the “human life” at stake, and I’ll stop asking you to be responsible for it.

So is smothering infants ok? Where is your line? That was old school birth control as well.
Your job as a parent is to take care of your kids not murder them

 

[Mike]

You’re taking responsibility by getting involved with the mother’s decision. And then abandoning it like a deadbeat dad. Stop pretending you give a shit about the “human life” at stake, and I’ll stop asking you to be responsible for it.

More of this bootstraps nonsense, where they try to force people to do what THEY want, and then completely turn their backs on them while they fail.

 

[skold]

Don’t worry no man can get drunk enough to get you pregnant. He’d die of alcohol poisoning before being able to do the deed with you

You like referring to people as women as an insult and yet you wonder why you don't get laid.

Just stay away from guns ok little one?

 

[skold]

Nobody is supposed to pay you as a mother to care for your children. That's your job and you just do it.

Says who?

 

[ReligiousDiscipline]

Abortion will be an issue until sex and relationships are taken seriously and held to a higher standard. When relationships are trivialized and sex is viewed as nothing more than glorified masturbation then we are going to live in a society that demands the convenience of killing unborn children. If relationships and sex are seen as nothing more than a pleasurable end, then pregnancy and children will only be seen as a barrier to self-gratification.

Like everything else, it seems like people want the privilege, but they don't want the responsibility that comes with it. For now, we can't separate pregnancy from sex. Pregnancy is a natural function of sex, but the general attitude these days is "I want to fool around and have sex, but I don't want to be held responsible for the possible child that could come into my life so you better make abortions available for my convenience. I can't have a kid ruining my selfish lifestyle."

We can ban the murder of unborn children (I am all for it), but we still have to deal with the major problem of relationships and sex being ultimately meaningless and pursued as nothing more than a trivial pleasure.

 

[ElKarlo]

You like referring to people as women as an insult and yet you wonder why you don't get laid.

Just stay away from guns ok little one?

Lol I’m married with kids lady. Go back to your box of wine and cats

 

[skold]

Lol I’m married with kids lady. Go back to your box of wine and cats

Ah, you are probably from one of those shitty countries where women are forced into marriages, which is why their independence in the west triggers you so much.