Missing: examples of toehold submissions in high level BJJ

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Stephan Kesting, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. Stephan Kesting

    Stephan Kesting Green Belt

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    So a friend and I were having a conversation about the efficacy of different submissions at the highest levels. He pointed out that there were very, very few examples of top level guys getting tapped out by toeholds in competition: they tap to kneebars, they tap to heel hooks, but they just don't tap to toeholds.

    Off the top of my head I couldn't think of any counter-examples. Am I missing something here? Are there examples of top tier guys (guys who've medalled at the Pan Ams, ADCC, or the Mundials) tapping out to toeholds??
     
  2. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    The Estima lock is mechanically a toehold
     
  3. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    Sorry, that was glib, typing with my thumbs. Just suggesting their highlight reel be a place to start.
     
  4. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    Marcin held has at least one win via toe hold, but it's not a very commun sub...
     
  5. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    It's really hard to toe hold good guys just because it's so hard to create the kind of control needed to prevent them from taking small angles to defend. You can finish a heel hook or kneebar because you can isolate the attacked joint and hold uke in place, that's really hard with a toe hold.

    About the only way I've seen them work at higher levels is for the attacker to just give uke no time to tap and try to tear their ankle apart as fast as possible, like happened to Tyrone Glover at the end of this match:



    Even then you can usually defend by rolling and it's just hard for the attacker to stop you. The only time I ever tapped to a toe hold in competition was because I didn't see it coming and the guy ripped my ankle to shreds (2-3 weeks on crutches).
     
  6. kjg1672

    kjg1672 Brown Belt

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    Andre galvao got one on popovitch at adcc
     
  7. EGDM

    EGDM Blue Belt

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    Edit: Cobrinha vs. someone. I'm pretty sure it's the finals of a major tournament. Will update if I find the exact source. Toehold starts at 3:49.

     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  8. DushanS94

    DushanS94 Orange Belt

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    doesn"t get much more high level than this
     
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  9. GKY

    GKY Green Belt

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    Also Tanqinho tapped Geo Martinez at ADCC with a toe hold.
     
  10. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    One thing that stands out here. Galvao had control of the free leg. That takes away all of the "just change angles" defenses to the toe hold, and increases the pressure on the knee.
     
  11. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Cobrinha won the gold in the finals of the World Championships with a toe hold over Bruno Frazatto in 2008.
     
  12. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

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    That setup from 50/50 was sick.
     
  13. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    I remember vinny mags got a toe hold on someone at the NY ultimate absolute...



    It was buchecha lol.

    Gary tonon has a pretty underrated toe hold.






    Also, a lot guys are just plain awful at toeholds and only use them ironically to get advantages lol. Have to take 'attempts' %wise with a grain of salt.
     
  14. Bear Knuckles

    Bear Knuckles Brown Belt

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    Nice vids in here, guys. Don't see a lot of it in MMA but the BJJ in MMA is pretty low and most leg lock specialists there concentrate on heel hooks due to efficacy.
     
  15. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    Yeah the heel hook definitely overshadows most other options in the same situation. Not that that's an issue mind you; its like why use a club when you could use a rapier instead, no sense in not taking advantage.

    That said toe holds are highly versatile and you can grab them in many different situations where you might not normally think you are vulnerable. It can be a worthwhile investment of training time for that reason in my opinion.
     
  16. xPINKx

    xPINKx i like turtles

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    Barnett submitting Ryron Gracie at Metamoris...
     
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  17. fanboysareevil

    fanboysareevil Green Belt

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    No one mentions the classic? Comprido vs Roleta

     
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  18. the heed

    the heed Look at the size of that boy's heed.

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    Mackenzie Dern has finished off a lot of people with toe holds
     
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  19. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    You don't see a lot of americanas in high level BJJ either.
     
  20. mike sherry

    mike sherry Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    what did marcelo tap ricco with?
     

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