Misplaced hate to the Gracie Brothers

"At the Gracie Academy we don't teach people how to fight. We give people confidence so they don't need to fight."

"Once you complete all of the Gracie Combatives lessons three times, and develop your reflexes in the execution of all 36 techniques individually and in every possible combination, you will qualify to take the blue belt qualification test."

https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/series_view.aspx?c=63QJ4TGT7X&n=28&su=49&se=45
 
gannas said:
Yup and sadly not too many people know who he is. Everyone knows who Helio is but not who Carlson is.
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You're right. And it gets even worse...

Some know everything about Helio. But have no idea who guys like Rolls, Gastao, or even Carlos Sr. are, and these guys were integral to the arts development...
 
Helio was just interested in running privates classes with rich business people.

Carlson Gracie was known for being the first person that started to teach group classes but also taught the advanced techniques i.e Gracie secrets. Therefore it forced the other Gracies to let go of the "secrets:.

Carlson also was know for training his students to compete vs the gracies but he would never train anyone in MMA or VT to fight a Gracie.
 
Businessmen look to scale, but the quality gets sacrificed if you don't choose the right method.

They are not looking to create black belt champions ala Lloyd Irvin, they want build a community that can appeal to every person regardless of age, experience, or sex.

No harm in training in the garage! But you HAVE to work with instructors, roll with many different people and get tested by someone of rank to really know what jiu jitsu is all about.

It's not just about Self Defense or Competition, jiu jitsu is all of these things...
 
Robotron said:
Didn't Calson Gracie get in accused at one point for selling belts through the mail as well?
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I think it was Carlson Jnr which was critised for giving a certificate for some self defense program video tapes.
 
Robotron said:
I think I found it

Carlson Gracie Jr :

"Now, for a limited time only, Carlson Gracie, Jr., is accepting key students and instructors to learn and teach the fundamentals of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. This new course, endorsed by the International Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Federation, teaches the Gracie Family's most life saving self-defense techniques and is designed for instructors as well as students of all levels. This course teaches dozens of important Gracie standup and ground fighting techniques and fully certifies you to teach these techniques for the Gracie Family. You can even have Carlson Gracie, Jr. personally test you or your students for further certification."


Helio Gracie response.

"Didn't you see Carlson's son is selling a certificate in the United States? To anyone who buys four or five of his tapes, he'll give a certificate as an instructor. What else do you want? Is there a bigger con artist than this?...Now an individual comes by my academy and spends five or six months or a year, and then leaves calling himself a jiu jitsu teacher. There's no way."


another article this by Royce.. (im not sure if he's talking about Carlson or Carlson jr?)
Royce Gracie Interview 10/22/97

"Carlson...Carlson sells black belts, you go to his school and you pay for the lessons and eventually he gives you your black belt. That is the problem with Carlson. At our school we make you work for your black belt, and it takes time to get it."
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Thats funny that Royce is talking smack. Especially since it was a Carlson Black belt that put him to sleep in a Jiu Jitsu match LOL. Its also Ironic that Helio is looking down on selling certs via watching videos tapes... hmm online videos??? Guess thats why they waited till Helio passed away before introducing this online bidness...
 
gannas said:
Thats funny that Royce is talking smack. Especially since it was a Carlson Black belt that put him to sleep in a Jiu Jitsu match LOL. Its also Ironic that Helio is looking down on selling certs via watching videos tapes... hmm online videos??? Guess thats why they waited till Helio passed away before introducing this online bidness...
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But Carlson jnr was offering a certificate in self defense, it was no BJJ belt.
 
lechien said:
But Carlson jnr was offering a certificate in self defense, it was no BJJ belt.
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Now rener and Ryron give out certificates even easier, AND belts... then to top it off they say it's what Helio wanted. lol
 
If it was up to Helio, they will be still teaching the 40 classes program to rich people under a private class format.
 
Lukthree said:
While I agree that online belt testing is a bit odd, you have to look at it from the other perspective.

What if you live somewhere where you have no access to a gym, or you are middle-aged and cant make classes because of family/work? What they are doing by creating an online system is bringing the art that we all love to those less fortunate than those of us who can make it to 5 classes a week in the gym.

And on the subject of their business tactics, I know all of you know that it isn't easy to make a living off of BJJ, props to them for finding a great way to do it. Would you not take the same opportunity if it were presented to you? or would you be content teaching for 30K/year and pass up the opportunity?
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The problem isn't that they offer alternative ways of training, it's that you can be graded based on it. A training-at-home BJJ blue belt is not equal to a legit training BJJ blue belt.
 
Robotron said:
The way it should be, the poor have to rights to BJJ.
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Did you make a spelling mistake?

Well anyway, Helio was getting his relatives to teach private classes for him and he managed the business.

He had no intention to promote anyone to BB unless they were Gracies or close family members (teach for him for many years and likely for free).

Then Carlson went to open his own academy (I guess everyone needs to get pay!)
 
Lukthree said:
While I agree that online belt testing is a bit odd, you have to look at it from the other perspective.

What if you live somewhere where you have no access to a gym, or you are middle-aged and cant make classes because of family/work? What they are doing by creating an online system is bringing the art that we all love to those less fortunate than those of us who can make it to 5 classes a week in the gym.

And on the subject of their business tactics, I know all of you know that it isn't easy to make a living off of BJJ, props to them for finding a great way to do it. Would you not take the same opportunity if it were presented to you? or would you be content teaching for 30K/year and pass up the opportunity?
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#1) You are dilusional if you believe that most school owners only rake 30k a year. If you are just an instructor, and dont own your own school, ok, i can see that.

But if you are a school owner, and dont have more than 1 partner, youre likely making over 65k a year. To teach Jiu Jitsu.

My instructor does very well. Nice big house. New cars. Rental properties.

And of the instructors who own their own places, they are in simular situations.

#2) THEY ARE RORIANS KIDS! They would be taken care of for the rest of their lives before they had their Blue Belts.

Rorian is a businessman. That Academy is huge, and he has many affiliates who also pay outrageous fees.

Ive heard they charge in excess of 200 a month, per student, and its believed they have over 500 students at their HQ location.
 
Hades666 said:
misplaced hate makes disgrace of races
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seriously hades fuck off. you post nothing but stupid shit about hate/haters and you are just a little dbag with nothing else to do. get a life or go to the contenders or play in traffic.
 
I never knew about all this stuff. I knew how it originated, and the very very basic lineage stories, but I never know about how there was family feud, and how the thought train of how BJJ should be disseminated differed between family members. Hearing about the family feud is really interesting.

If anybody wouldn't mind posting it in here, this may be an appropriate thread for it, or maybe start a new one. Or if it's on the web maybe somebody could direct me to it.

Ah, my ignorance about some things astounds me. But I'd definitely like to hear how the dissemination of BJJ came about!
 
cheath said:
I never knew about all this stuff. I knew how it originated, and the very very basic lineage stories, but I never know about how there was family feud, and how the thought train of how BJJ should be disseminated differed between family members. Hearing about the family feud is really interesting.

If anybody wouldn't mind posting it in here, this may be an appropriate thread for it, or maybe start a new one. Or if it's on the web maybe somebody could direct me to it.

Ah, my ignorance about some things astounds me. But I'd definitely like to hear how the dissemination of BJJ came about!
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There's a giant 200 page thread on it called the "Rickson Gracie FAQ". go read it.
 
Carlson Sr. (RIP) was from what I hear the first Gracie to show all and any techniques to "outsiders". You were family the minute you joined his gym. His goal was to build a powerhouse team, which he did.
 
StranGold said:
seriously hades fuck off. you post nothing but stupid shit about hate/haters and you are just a little dbag with nothing else to do. get a life or go to the contenders or play in traffic.
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I second this post.
 
Idk much about this whole thing, but anyone who supports belt testing online is an asshole.
 
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