Misplaced hate to the Gracie Brothers

[tk99]

I find the contempt shown to Rener and Ryron absurd. These are two exceptional bjj stylists who are very articulate, intelligent, and respectful. They have good values and ridiculous jiu jitsu.

If you are against their product because of the online belt thing, try to keep that separate from the quality of their bjj and analysis.

Their instruction is tremendous and they're good folks. You can't reasonably deny that. Those of you who find yourself hatin, that's not a good sign. With all the baggage in our sport, aiming your sour grapes at the good guys only holds us back.

 

[Fight Skillz**]

I find the contempt shown to Rener and Ryron absurd. These are two exceptional bjj stylists who are very articulate, intelligent, and respectful. They have good values and ridiculous jiu jitsu.

If you are against their product because of the online belt thing, try to keep that separate from the quality of their bjj and analysis.

Their instruction is tremendous and they're good folks. You can't reasonably deny that. Those of you who find yourself hatin, that's not a good sign. With all the baggage in our sport, aiming your sour grapes at the good guys only holds us back.

lol, something tells me you haven't heard Rener's sales pitch and how it involves "our sport".

 

[lechien]

Oh great! another Gracie Combatives online thread.

I think you can judge someone intentions and ethics by the way they run their business.

 

[seiken88]

I think that part of the reason they receive so much hate is the their father Rorion Gracie has stepped on too many toes when promoting the Torrance Academy. Therefore since Rener and Ryron represent the Torrance Academy they get much of the hate.

I personally think they seem like good guy with great BJJ skills. However, I am a bit turned off by them constantly trying to "sell the product"

 

[Darwinist]

Rorion has been known as the "sleazy Gracie" since the early 1990s.

His sons seem no different.

I don't knock their abilities on the mat, but I wouldn't ever consider conducting any type of busines arrangement with them on principle. I don' t like slick marketing.

 

[ArchAngelos]

I like these two guys. Up until the online belt testing, a lot of people did. Their jiu jitsu is sick but belt promotion over the internet has pissed a lot of people off. Hats off to them for making a ton of money but they soiled their own image in the process.

Oh, and if this turns in to another 'Gracie Combatives is awesome/ no it isn't you douche bag' thread, then I apologize for adding to it and am sorrowful for being a part of it in advance.

Over and out.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

I like these two guys. Up until the online belt testing, a lot of people did. Their jiu jitsu is sick but belt promotion over the internet has pissed a lot of people off. Hats off to them for making a ton of money but they soiled their own image in the process.

I think this about sums up the majority of people involved in the sport. They seem like very intelligent, friendly guys. And ive got nothing against them on a personal level, but that doesnt mean i agree with their ethics and business first mentality.


They are very opinionated about certain aspects of the sport, (namely sport vs GJJ) but a lot of people feel they have are in no position to make such distinctions, or make such claims.


Personally, i dont think Rener and Ryron speak for the sport as a whole. And i certainly dont like the idea of them being the public face of it.

This sport is much bigger than the Gracie family. They will always be a part of it, and rightfully so, but its not just theirs anymore.

It belongs to all of us.

And we have Carlson to thank for that.

 

[bigraydaddy1]

"And we have Carlson to thank for that."


Very true

 

[curb1850]

Whats wrong with Gracie Combatives? As a card carrying member of team Garcia I am confused why all the online training hate.

 

[Lukthree]

While I agree that online belt testing is a bit odd, you have to look at it from the other perspective.

What if you live somewhere where you have no access to a gym, or you are middle-aged and cant make classes because of family/work? What they are doing by creating an online system is bringing the art that we all love to those less fortunate than those of us who can make it to 5 classes a week in the gym.

And on the subject of their business tactics, I know all of you know that it isn't easy to make a living off of BJJ, props to them for finding a great way to do it. Would you not take the same opportunity if it were presented to you? or would you be content teaching for 30K/year and pass up the opportunity?

 

[xMikeyX]

What is odd about Rorion (considered one of the the least proficient grapplers in his family) going out and being good at something else in his life other than grappling (sales man)? Makes sense to me- brothers aren't all born with identical skills.

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

I find the contempt shown to Rener and Ryron absurd. These are two exceptional bjj stylists who are very articulate, intelligent, and respectful. They have good values and ridiculous jiu jitsu.

If you are against their product because of the online belt thing, try to keep that separate from the quality of their bjj and analysis.

Their instruction is tremendous and they're good folks. You can't reasonably deny that. Those of you who find yourself hatin, that's not a good sign. With all the baggage in our sport, aiming your sour grapes at the good guys only holds us back.

Hey Rener! How's it going?

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I find the contempt shown to Rener and Ryron absurd. These are two exceptional bjj stylists who are very articulate, intelligent, and respectful. They have good values and ridiculous jiu jitsu.

If you are against their product because of the online belt thing, try to keep that separate from the quality of their bjj and analysis.

I don't think anyone criticized their BJJ skills in any of the threads on combatives/gracie university. All of the flaming was directed at their business practices.

Their instruction is tremendous and they're good folks. You can't reasonably deny that. Those of you who find yourself hatin, that's not a good sign. With all the baggage in our sport, aiming your sour grapes at the good guys only holds us back.

Again, their skills and instruction was never an issue. In fact, most people on this board believe the DVD instructionals they put out are just fine, on par with what you see today's BJJ DVD market.

A good number of us have been in martial arts for a while, and have watched the correspondence-course-get-your-belt-in-20-easy-lessons nonsense add to the growing amount of bullshido in other styles. People are upset because they don't want their BJJ sullied by money grubbing tactics.

 

[Fight Skillz**]

What bothers me even more than online belt promotions is the way they put down other BJJ schools as less effective in a fight. they even have the nerve to suggest a Gracie Combatives Blue belt is more well suited to defend himself in a street fight than a competitive blue belt from another school, even if they fight in MMA. pretty ridiculous imo.

than Werdum wins against Fedor, and now sport jiu-jitsu is okay for a little bit.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

While I agree that online belt testing is a bit odd, you have to look at it from the other perspective.

What if you live somewhere where you have no access to a gym, or you are middle-aged and cant make classes because of family/work? What they are doing by creating an online system is bringing the art that we all love to those less fortunate than those of us who can make it to 5 classes a week in the gym.

I have trained with people who are in their 60s and 70s with families. Age/family is no excuse. And just because you can't make 5 classes doesn't mean you have to resort to a dvd instructional for primary learning. Even going to one class at an academy is better than learning from supplementary materials.

As for not having a gym in the area, that is unfortunate yes. In that case, sure, use a dvd instructional or books and get some buddies together who are interested. But handing out belts and certifying garage gyms (blind leading the blind) is going too far.

And on the subject of their business tactics, I know all of you know that it isn't easy to make a living off of BJJ, props to them for finding a great way to do it. Would you not take the same opportunity if it were presented to you? or would you be content teaching for 30K/year and pass up the opportunity?

The correspondence belt testing is going to attract two groups of folks. One is what you mentioned earlier, people with no access to training. The other are those who can't hack it in a real school, or those whose egos are too big, or who are lazy and don't want to put in the work for the rank. Looking at previous decades of business crap in the martial arts, I'd expect the latter group to be much larger.

Sure you make a good buck, but you are promoting people who you wouldn't have wanted in your academy, basically watering down the system's practitioners.

And some of you would probably argue about why bother caring what other people do or why care about ranks. Most of us who abhor this online testing care because we love BJJ, plain and simple, and don't want to see it end up like TMAs. And rank is important because again, abuse of the belt system is one of the first signs that a system is being mcdojofied/bullshidoed; BJJ is one of the few systems out there that still has rank correlate to skill with relative accuracy.

I've watched the Combatives dvds, I think they are a great supplementary tool. I think Rener and Ryron Gracie have their hearts in the right place for wanting to spread BJJ, but it doesn't change the fact that correspondence MA courses have and always will lead to abuse of belt system.

 

[ShindoNinja]

I have trained with people who are in their 60s and 70s with families. Age/family is no excuse. And just because you can't make 5 classes doesn't mean you have to resort to a dvd instructional for primary learning. Even going to one class at an academy is better than learning from supplementary materials.

As for not having a gym in the area, that is unfortunate yes. In that case, sure, use a dvd instructional or books and get some buddies together who are interested. But handing out belts and certifying garage gyms (blind leading the blind) is going too far.


The correspondence belt testing is going to attract two groups of folks. One is what you mentioned earlier, people with no access to training. The other are those who can't hack it in a real school, or those whose egos are too big, or who are lazy and don't want to put in the work for the rank. Looking at previous decades of business crap in the martial arts, I'd expect the latter group to be much larger.

Sure you make a good buck, but you are promoting people who you wouldn't have wanted in your academy, basically watering down the system's practitioners.

And some of you would probably argue about why bother caring what other people do or why care about ranks. Most of us who abhor this online testing care because we love BJJ, plain and simple, and don't want to see it end up like TMAs. And rank is important because again, abuse of the belt system is one of the first signs that a system is being mcdojofied/bullshidoed; BJJ is one of the few systems out there that still has rank correlate to skill with relative accuracy.

I've watched the Combatives dvds, I think they are a great supplementary tool. I think Rener and Ryron Gracie have their hearts in the right place for wanting to spread BJJ, but it doesn't change the fact that correspondence MA courses have and always will lead to abuse of belt system.

I agree with everything you mention. The material they present is clearly taught and I've found it very useful but I am not using it as primary instruction, only supplemental.

The most important thing I think everyone needs to remember is that the GC blue belt is not a sport BJJ blue belt. It is the self defense portion of the GJJ program and that's all. So let the online graded students tell people they are a blue belt in BJJ, but it all come out on the mats. We all know there is no replacement for sparring.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

What bothers me even more than online belt promotions is the way they put down other BJJ schools as less effective in a fight. they even have the nerve to suggest a Gracie Combatives Blue belt is more well suited to defend himself in a street fight than a competitive blue belt from another school, even if they fight in MMA. pretty ridiculous imo.

Why is this ridiculous? Oh because the guy from the other school fights MMA?

 

[Fight Skillz**]

Why is this ridiculous? Oh because the guy from the other school fights MMA?

it's obviously ridiculous because a person that is physically conditioned and trains daily with LIVE training in BJJ with high level partners, and crosstrains to supplement with wrestling, MT, etc is OBVIOUSLY much better suited for a hand to hand altercation than a person who drills moves in his garage based on video instruction with no high level training partners, no real instructor present, and no supplementary training. let alone the fact that they are NOT supposed to roll until AFTER they get their blue belt.

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

My personal issues with Rener and Ryron:

1) Online belt testing. This concept does not sit well with anyone who has dedicated years of blood, sweat and tears to BJJ.

2) Disparaging the "sport". Marketing that their way and their instruction is "pure" while all other BJJ instruction is somehow inferior. Asserting that sport bjj training does not benefit self-defense.

3) Disparaging other Tournaments. If you live in southern CA and have been competing actively in the last decade, you have probably witnessed the brothers walking into a local tournament and asking the organizer to make an announcement. They then proceed to market their own tournament with its "superior" rules.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

it's obviously ridiculous because a person that is physically conditioned and trains daily with LIVE training in BJJ with high level partners, and crosstrains to supplement with wrestling, MT, etc is OBVIOUSLY much better suited for a hand to hand altercation than a person who drills moves in his garage based on video instruction with no high level training partners, no real instructor present, and no supplementary training. let alone the fact that they are NOT supposed to roll until AFTER they get their blue belt.

Gotcha, for some reason i was thinking it was a sport BJJ only vs. a Gracie JJ guy who trains with them at there school......my bad, carry on.:icon_chee

In the case you stated, they are saling lies.:icon_neut