Miocic vs Prime Crocop

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Modern, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. DayV

    DayV Green Belt

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    UFC champions:
    Kerr, Couture, Frye, Shamrock, Belfort, Smith, Randleman, Mezger,
    came to Japan and lost to japanese:
    Fujita, Yoshida, Koshaka, Inoue, Sakuraba, Tamura...

    Japanese fighters who were highly ranked at that historic times got their status by beating UFC champions.
     
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  2. Grenades

    Grenades Pitter Patter

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    You didn’t name 1 UFC champ that Crocop or any Japanese fighter beat.
     
  3. Bubblun

    Bubblun Brown Belt

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    A foot injury ain't nothing serious, sorry.
    Bones heal.

    Dude injured his foot during the GP?
    So he was injured during training camp against Eddie Sanchez, maybe, but against Gonzaga he was fine, don't even dare to find excuses, you bunch of weirdos.

    Every damn fighter had injuries of this kind, but you never hear about them unless they are Sherdog's favourite.
    About Pride fighters we know everything, every stupid little injury is used as an excuse.
    Crocop hut his foot? Fedor had hand problems? Such a big deal.

    Give me a source on legit "career changing" injuries he had in Pride or K1 that required surgeries, I am talking about ACL surgery, painful hernias and that kind.
    Then we are talking about "excuses", maybe, since the majority of athletes had them and still performing.
     
  4. DayV

    DayV Green Belt

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    All of them were UFC champions. All of them lost to Japanese.

    But even lineal,
    Couture beacme UFC champion and as undefeated came to Japan and lost to Inoue.

    Royce Gracie was undefeated UFC champion and then he lost to Sakuraba.

    Kerr was undefeated UFC champion untill he lost to Fujita.
    Josh Barnett won UFC championship and was undefeated until he lost to Cro Cop.

    Don Frye won UFC tournament and then he was undefeated until he lost to Yoshida.
     
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  5. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Straba

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    I think moreso that the OWGP shin injury ment he had quite limited time to train for the UFC environment, I mean perhaps he wouldn't have done that anyway but it does seem like a potential factor and he was clearly not prepared to deal with elbows on the ground just keeping wriest control as he was being cracked repeatedly.

    Again though the issue with Mirko is much more after that, Gonzaga IMHO was an upset win akin to Randleman but unlike Randleman Mirko was significantly older and more worn, he picked up another injury from that KO and several others afterwards including a serious knee infection in early 09. You watch the Al Turk UFC comeback fight and to be its clear he isn't anything like as fast as he was in Pride yet we get claims that losing to Schaub years after that was somehow his "prime".

    Its basically UFC marketing spiel, sell a former great on the decline as still in his prime so new names can get over by beating him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  6. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    Tamura beat Da Croatian Sedation in Rings, when Pat was still the official UFC WW Champ... for instance...
    The same Tamura got the draw vs Frank, who was the offiicial UFC LHW Champ...
     
  7. SalvadorCollie

    SalvadorCollie Blue Belt

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    1997 Bulls vs the 2017 Warriors?

    who fucking knows man?

    get real.
     
  8. kenetics

    kenetics Silver Belt

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    Again, Struve who is a terrible HW tko stipe. If he can, cro cop can definitely ko him.
     
  9. kenetics

    kenetics Silver Belt

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    The HW division in the UFC has always been the weakest. It's also the only division where they rotate between the same old Fighters.
     
  10. Bubblun

    Bubblun Brown Belt

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    Wait, wait, wait.

    Dude fought Eddie Sanchez and Gonzaga and not Couture for a reason, to get used to fighting in a different environment.

    Crocop had surgeries and nagging injuries later in his career, starting 2008 or so, while he was fighting in Dream he had a knee brace.
    Against Gonzaga he was fine, and even against Kongo if we don't nit pick, it seems he wasn't hurt falling from the Gonzaga ko.

    About Dana using Crocop is a big fat lie.
    I remember an old statement by Dana on Black Belt Magazine saying something like "Crocop could beat every fighter we have in the UFC".
    Crocop was in fact brought by the UFC while Pride was still operating, it was a big deal, he was meant to be UFC champion, he simply didn't perform.

    You go hear statements from Crocop about Dana or the UFC, and he never said anything bad about them, they had a good relationship.
     
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  11. Grenades

    Grenades Pitter Patter

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    To be clear, did Crocop fight them in the UFC when they were champs? No, so he didn’t fight any UFC champs.
     
  12. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    You asked about Japz, tho...
     
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  13. DayV

    DayV Green Belt

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    Even if we leave his entire previous career aside, since debuting in MMA in August of 2001 till september 2006 Cro Cop had 27 MMA fights + 4 K-1 fights paralell (Sapp, Bonjasky, Hunt, Yanagisawa). That is 31 pro fights in 5 years, or fighting 6 times per year, or fighting in average every 2 months without rest for a very long time.
    That is insane incredible rythm and frequency and tremendeous wear and tear on body and mind. By 2008 Cro Cop's body has reached it's breaking point and toll, and he had multiple documented surgeries till 2011.

    On the other hand, UFC stars are out of prime with 15-20 fights in entire career, and they have 6 months or more between fights to rest & heal and adjust peak form.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  14. Grenades

    Grenades Pitter Patter

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    May have worded it wrong. None of the fighters listed ever fought a UFC Champ.
     
  15. Grenades

    Grenades Pitter Patter

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    I’m splitting hairs but did Tamura ever have a UFC belt? Solid knowledge, I have some fights to YouTube.
     
  16. ZOD66

    ZOD66 First you take a drink, then the drink takes you

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    CroCop is shit without steroids
     
  17. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    Misunderstandin´... Thought you were talkin´ about Japz winnin´ vs official UFC Champs.
     
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  18. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Straba

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    Crocop fought Sanchez and Gonzaga to hype him up, the reality is Pride fighters were not massively well known in the US and having Mirko pickup some wins, hoping via LHK before facing Randy would help build up the PPV more.

    Crocop in 2007 was hired as a strong prospect, the UFC did probably hope he would become champ or at least get into a title fight with Randy which would be hyped. Crocop in 2009 was not in the same position, the UFC might have had some hope he could be a success but reality his comeback in Dream wasn't very impressive with Reem manhandling him. He was I'd say signed more for his name at that point and to stop rivals from using him.

    I'm sure Mirko was quite happy with the UFC bringing him back, they did pay him well for someone of diminished status because he still brought interest. My point was I think they sold a false idea that the Mirko of the 2010's was still in his prime when clearly he wasn't.

    You seem to come back to the same argument every time this comes up "nobody declines because the promoters and fighters say so" but the reality is neither are likely to admit to such decline because it doesn't make sense for them to do so. Promoters want the best product to sell, fighters want to keep status and there own self confidence.
     
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  19. NoBiasJustMMA

    NoBiasJustMMA Steel Belt

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    Foot and knee injuries are pretty serious when your style of fighting in MMA is kickboxing. GTFO of here with that bullshit.

    Most fighters don't fight like 6 times a year for years and years on end, Cro Cop did. The amount of wear and tear Cro Cop went through is much higher than most MMA fighters cause he competed like twice as often and for over 11 years before ever fighting the UFC. What is wrong with knowing things about MMA on an MMA forum, you bitch about the weirdest stuff.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  20. Versace

    Versace Bezos Belt Double Yellow Card

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    Imagine thinking glass jaw Cro Cop would be top 20 in toda's evolved HW division
     

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