Miocic vs Prime Crocop

[DayV]

Don't forget the 14 Japanese fighters on his resume.

I've challenged his fanbase to name one relevant Japanese fighter currently competing above 170...let alone

UFC champions:
Kerr, Couture, Frye, Shamrock, Belfort, Smith, Randleman, Mezger,
came to Japan and lost to japanese:
Fujita, Yoshida, Koshaka, Inoue, Sakuraba, Tamura...

Japanese fighters who were highly ranked at that historic times got their status by beating UFC champions.

 

[Grenades]

UFC champions:
Kerr, Couture, Frye, Shamrock, Belfort, Smith, Randleman, Mezger,
came to Japan and lost to japanese:
Fujita, Yoshida, Koshaka, Inoue, Sakuraba, Tamura...

Japanese fighters who were highly ranked at that historic times got their status by beating UFC champions.

You didn’t name 1 UFC champ that Crocop or any Japanese fighter beat.

 

[Bubblun]

It's not horse shit, he had over 100 fights and was fighting for at least 11 years before joining the UFC. He also had multiple knee and ankle injuries late in Pride and was having major leg problems around the second time he fought Hunt which is why he was wearing shoes. No one is in their prime after 100+ fights, 11+ years of competing at a high level in K-1, MMA and amateur boxing when they also have had a bunch of injuries.

OWGP Cro Cop was not the best Cro Cop, people always talk OWGP but they never mention who he actually fought. He fought an overly bulky Wanderlei that had lost his speed advantage over Cro Cop from their first fight cause he thought he was going to wind up fighting Big Nog or Barnett and bulked up a lot. Barnett who Cro Cop had already beaten twice other than those two Cro Cop didn't fight anyone that was a high level fighter in the OWGP. Cro Cop injured his ankle on Wanderlei's head as well in the OWGP.

"After his victory at the 2006 Openweight Grand Prix, a rematch between Cro Cop and Fedor Emelianenko failed to materialize and on 12 December 2006 Cro Cop pulled out of the New Year's Eve event, citing both a foot injury and Emelianenko's commitment to meet Mark Hunt at the card in question. Through his official website, Cro Cop revealed "I still can't kick like I want to. It's the best that we give more time to this injury to heal. I want to be in perfect shape for my next fights.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirko_Cro_Cop

Normally when someone says a couple of months they mean like 2-3, 5 months is more than a couple of months.

A foot injury ain't nothing serious, sorry.
Bones heal.

Dude injured his foot during the GP?
So he was injured during training camp against Eddie Sanchez, maybe, but against Gonzaga he was fine, don't even dare to find excuses, you bunch of weirdos.

Every damn fighter had injuries of this kind, but you never hear about them unless they are Sherdog's favourite.
About Pride fighters we know everything, every stupid little injury is used as an excuse.
Crocop hut his foot? Fedor had hand problems? Such a big deal.

Give me a source on legit "career changing" injuries he had in Pride or K1 that required surgeries, I am talking about ACL surgery, painful hernias and that kind.
Then we are talking about "excuses", maybe, since the majority of athletes had them and still performing.

 

[DayV]

You didn’t name 1 UFC champ that Crocop or any Japanese fighter beat.

All of them were UFC champions. All of them lost to Japanese.

But even lineal,
Couture beacme UFC champion and as undefeated came to Japan and lost to Inoue.

Royce Gracie was undefeated UFC champion and then he lost to Sakuraba.

Kerr was undefeated UFC champion untill he lost to Fujita.
Josh Barnett won UFC championship and was undefeated until he lost to Cro Cop.

Don Frye won UFC tournament and then he was undefeated until he lost to Yoshida.

 

[moreorless87]

A foot injury ain't nothing serious, sorry.
Bones heal.

Dude injured his foot during the GP?
So he was injured during training camp against Eddie Sanchez, maybe, but against Gonzaga he was fine, don't even dare to find excuses, you bunch of weirdos.

Every damn fighter had injuries of this kind, but you never hear about them unless they are Sherdog's favourite.
About Pride fighters we know everything, every stupid little injury is used as an excuse.
Crocop hut his foot? Fedor had hand problems? Such a big deal.

Give me a source on legit "career changing" injuries he had in Pride or K1 that required surgeries, I am talking about ACL surgery, painful hernias and that kind.
Then we are talking about "excuses", maybe, since the majority of athletes had them and still performing.

I think moreso that the OWGP shin injury ment he had quite limited time to train for the UFC environment, I mean perhaps he wouldn't have done that anyway but it does seem like a potential factor and he was clearly not prepared to deal with elbows on the ground just keeping wriest control as he was being cracked repeatedly.

Again though the issue with Mirko is much more after that, Gonzaga IMHO was an upset win akin to Randleman but unlike Randleman Mirko was significantly older and more worn, he picked up another injury from that KO and several others afterwards including a serious knee infection in early 09. You watch the Al Turk UFC comeback fight and to be its clear he isn't anything like as fast as he was in Pride yet we get claims that losing to Schaub years after that was somehow his "prime".

Its basically UFC marketing spiel, sell a former great on the decline as still in his prime so new names can get over by beating him.

 

[gono btw]

You didn’t name 1 UFC champ that Crocop or any Japanese fighter beat.

Tamura beat Da Croatian Sedation in Rings, when Pat was still the official UFC WW Champ... for instance...
The same Tamura got the draw vs Frank, who was the offiicial UFC LHW Champ...

 

[SalvadorCollie]

1997 Bulls vs the 2017 Warriors?

who fucking knows man?

get real.

 

[kenetics]

stipe. hes fought two high level kickboxers already who were both heavyweight world champs in different organizations. hes too big, too long, too good at defending kicks and his hands are too good and too heavy.


and he can wrestle.

Again, Struve who is a terrible HW tko stipe. If he can, cro cop can definitely ko him.

 

[kenetics]

Also true, and people don't want to believe that either. It's true across all sports, especially the newer ones

The HW division in the UFC has always been the weakest. It's also the only division where they rotate between the same old Fighters.

 

[Bubblun]

I think moreso that the OWGP shin injury ment he had quite limited time to train for the UFC environment, I mean perhaps he wouldn't have done that anyway but it does seem like a potential factor and he was clearly not prepared to deal with elbows on the ground just keeping wrestle control as he was being cracked repeatedly.

Again though the issue with Mirko is much more after that, Gonzaga IMHO was an upset win akin to Randleman but until Randleman Mirko was significantly older and more worn, he picked up another injury from that KO and several others afterwards including a serious knee infection in early 09. You watch the Al Turk UFC comeback fight and to be its clear he isn't anything like as fast as he was in Pride yet we get claims that losing to Schaub years after that was somehow his "prime".

Its basically UFC marketing spiel, sell a former great on the decline as still in his prime so new names can get over by beating him.

Wait, wait, wait.

Dude fought Eddie Sanchez and Gonzaga and not Couture for a reason, to get used to fighting in a different environment.

Crocop had surgeries and nagging injuries later in his career, starting 2008 or so, while he was fighting in Dream he had a knee brace.
Against Gonzaga he was fine, and even against Kongo if we don't nit pick, it seems he wasn't hurt falling from the Gonzaga ko.

About Dana using Crocop is a big fat lie.
I remember an old statement by Dana on Black Belt Magazine saying something like "Crocop could beat every fighter we have in the UFC".
Crocop was in fact brought by the UFC while Pride was still operating, it was a big deal, he was meant to be UFC champion, he simply didn't perform.

You go hear statements from Crocop about Dana or the UFC, and he never said anything bad about them, they had a good relationship.

 

[Grenades]

Tamura beat Da Croatian Sedation in Rings, when Pat was still the official UFC WW Champ... for instance...
The same Tamura got the draw vs Frank, who was the offiicial UFC LHW Champ...

To be clear, did Crocop fight them in the UFC when they were champs? No, so he didn’t fight any UFC champs.

 

[gono btw]

To be clear, did Crocop fight them in the UFC when they were champs? No, so he didn’t fight any UFC champs.

You asked about Japz, tho...

 

[DayV]

A foot injury ain't nothing serious, sorry.
Bones heal.

Dude injured his foot during the GP?
So he was injured during training camp against Eddie Sanchez, maybe, but against Gonzaga he was fine, don't even dare to find excuses, you bunch of weirdos.

Every damn fighter had injuries of this kind, but you never hear about them unless they are Sherdog's favourite.
About Pride fighters we know everything, every stupid little injury is used as an excuse.
Crocop hut his foot? Fedor had hand problems? Such a big deal.

Give me a source on legit "career changing" injuries he had in Pride or K1 that required surgeries, I am talking about ACL surgery, painful hernias and that kind.
Then we are talking about "excuses", maybe, since the majority of athletes had them and still performing.

Even if we leave his entire previous career aside, since debuting in MMA in August of 2001 till september 2006 Cro Cop had 27 MMA fights + 4 K-1 fights paralell (Sapp, Bonjasky, Hunt, Yanagisawa). That is 31 pro fights in 5 years, or fighting 6 times per year, or fighting in average every 2 months without rest for a very long time.
That is insane incredible rythm and frequency and tremendeous wear and tear on body and mind. By 2008 Cro Cop's body has reached it's breaking point and toll, and he had multiple documented surgeries till 2011.

On the other hand, UFC stars are out of prime with 15-20 fights in entire career, and they have 6 months or more between fights to rest & heal and adjust peak form.

 

[Grenades]

You asked about Japz, tho...

May have worded it wrong. None of the fighters listed ever fought a UFC Champ.

 

[Grenades]

Tamura beat Da Croatian Sedation in Rings, when Pat was still the official UFC WW Champ... for instance...
The same Tamura got the draw vs Frank, who was the offiicial UFC LHW Champ...

I’m splitting hairs but did Tamura ever have a UFC belt? Solid knowledge, I have some fights to YouTube.

 

[ZOD66]

Prime CroCop would D*E*M*O*L*I*S*H DEMOLISH demolish - Stipe.

CroCop is shit without steroids

 

[gono btw]

I’m splitting hairs but did Tamura ever have a UFC belt? Solid knowledge, I have some fights to YouTube.

Misunderstandin´... Thought you were talkin´ about Japz winnin´ vs official UFC Champs.

 

[moreorless87]

Wait, wait, wait.

Dude fought Eddie Sanchez and Gonzaga and not Couture for a reason, to get used to fighting in a different environment.

Crocop had surgeries and nagging injuries later in his career, starting 2008 or so, while he was fighting in Dream he had a knee brace.
Against Gonzaga he was fine, and even against Kongo if we don't nit pick, it seems he wasn't hurt falling from the Gonzaga ko.

About Dana using Crocop is a big fat lie.
I remember an old statement by Dana on Black Belt Magazine saying something like "Crocop could beat every fighter we have in the UFC".
Crocop was in fact brought by the UFC while Pride was still operating, it was a big deal, he was meant to be UFC champion, he simply didn't perform.

You go hear statements from Crocop about Dana or the UFC, and he never said anything bad about them, they had a good relationship.

Crocop fought Sanchez and Gonzaga to hype him up, the reality is Pride fighters were not massively well known in the US and having Mirko pickup some wins, hoping via LHK before facing Randy would help build up the PPV more.

Crocop in 2007 was hired as a strong prospect, the UFC did probably hope he would become champ or at least get into a title fight with Randy which would be hyped. Crocop in 2009 was not in the same position, the UFC might have had some hope he could be a success but reality his comeback in Dream wasn't very impressive with Reem manhandling him. He was I'd say signed more for his name at that point and to stop rivals from using him.

I'm sure Mirko was quite happy with the UFC bringing him back, they did pay him well for someone of diminished status because he still brought interest. My point was I think they sold a false idea that the Mirko of the 2010's was still in his prime when clearly he wasn't.

You seem to come back to the same argument every time this comes up "nobody declines because the promoters and fighters say so" but the reality is neither are likely to admit to such decline because it doesn't make sense for them to do so. Promoters want the best product to sell, fighters want to keep status and there own self confidence.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

A foot injury ain't nothing serious, sorry.
Bones heal.

Dude injured his foot during the GP?
So he was injured during training camp against Eddie Sanchez, maybe, but against Gonzaga he was fine, don't even dare to find excuses, you bunch of weirdos.

Every damn fighter had injuries of this kind, but you never hear about them unless they are Sherdog's favourite.
About Pride fighters we know everything, every stupid little injury is used as an excuse.
Crocop hut his foot? Fedor had hand problems? Such a big deal.

Give me a source on legit "career changing" injuries he had in Pride or K1 that required surgeries, I am talking about ACL surgery, painful hernias and that kind.
Then we are talking about "excuses", maybe, since the majority of athletes had them and still performing.

Foot and knee injuries are pretty serious when your style of fighting in MMA is kickboxing. GTFO of here with that bullshit.

Most fighters don't fight like 6 times a year for years and years on end, Cro Cop did. The amount of wear and tear Cro Cop went through is much higher than most MMA fighters cause he competed like twice as often and for over 11 years before ever fighting the UFC. What is wrong with knowing things about MMA on an MMA forum, you bitch about the weirdest stuff.

 

[Versace]

Imagine thinking glass jaw Cro Cop would be top 20 in toda's evolved HW division