Miocic on Werdum: "he hasn't fought someone like me"

[Final Say]

Whatever Final Say.

You are the single Sherdog poster that is incapable of noticing any difference between Pre-Cain JDS and post Cain JDS.

OK, Stipe lost to the best version of JDS we have ever seen, better?

Bro, we know about your Croatian nationality & you have a soft place for Stipe. But don't let that fondness make you blind.

Though I believe Cain & Stipe are both different fighters. Both are wrestler turned boxer but they have different elements. Cain has great pressure game & great Takedowns, but Stipe is more clinical/technical Striker with better Top control. So I will give you that.

But all this talk about JDS deterring because of the beating he received from Stipe, is pure comical. By saying that you are doing a great disservice to Alistair. Alistair won that match because he came up with a great gameplan & he is more talented Striker. Therefore he succeeded beating JDS while Stipe failed.

Few things, wanted to respond separately but the same reply pretty much applies to both.

I'm not trying to discredit neither Cain nor Overeem, that's really not my intent. Beating Junior is no small feat and something Stipe came just short of.

However, everyone is so quick to point out how much damage Junior accumulated over 10 rounds with Cain but forget the 5 rounds he went with Stipe. He took a very very similar beating from Stipe. It's 15 rounds of heavy damage, not 10. Winning the fight doesn't negate the MASSIVE damage he received.

 

[screaminleeman]

Few things, wanted to respond separately but the same reply pretty much applies to both.

I'm not trying to discredit neither Cain nor Overeem, that's really not my intent. Beating Junior is no small feat and something Stipe came just short of.

However, everyone is so quick to point out how much damage Junior accumulated over 10 rounds with Cain but forget the 5 rounds he went with Stipe. He took a very very similar beating from Stipe. It's 15 rounds of heavy damage, not 10. Winning the fight doesn't negate the MASSIVE damage he received.

I can't disagree with this at all. Cain knocked the front driver side and rear passenger side wheels off the JDS mobile. Stipe didn't miss a beat and took out the front passenger side wheel of the JDS mobile, even in loss. I highly suspect that we will see an even more degraded JDS in his next fight.

With that said, I think that Kharitonov is an excellent comparison with Stipe.

Granted Sergies arms are considerably shorter than Stipe's but I can't say that they are not "like" fighters. Both have decent take downs and are reasonably well rounded. Both are EXTREMELY accurate technical strikers.

There is no two fighters that are 100% identical. I and others think the Stipe is wrong, and Sergie is quite "like" him and faced Werdum.

The good news for Stipe is that Kharitonov BEAT Werdum! They BOTH have "figuratively of course" Iron Jaws! Great likeness IMO.

 

[FlyingKimurabar]

Never got this comparison. It stops at wrestlers who box. Stipe is a much bigger, longer and athletic guy with way, way better boxing. They're really not that similar.

Junior against Stipe was not the same Junior that fought Alistair. Overeem benefitted greatly from the ass whooping that Stipe and Junior put on each other. JDS looked like the walking dead after round 2 against Stipe.

No, they're both wrestler boxers who pressure, rarely kick, and like to use the clinch. How much closer can they get? Stipes the better striker? Who has he out struck? He lost to Struve and JDS. He wrestled Hunt.

Cain is much faster, hits harder, and puts together better combinations. All Stipe is really better at is defense.

Also Stipes cardio is much worse. He's usually exhasuted by the 3rd round if he doesn't get to lay on someone and completely control the pace in an easy fight, if you've happened to watch any fights besides his Hunt/Arlovski fight you'd know that

 

[Final Say]

No, they're both wrestler boxers who pressure, rarely kick, and like to use the clinch. How much closer can they get? Stipes the better striker? Who has he out struck? He lost to Struve and JDS. He wrestled Hunt.

Cain is much faster, hits harder, and puts together better combinations. All Stipe is really better at is defense.

Also Stipes cardio is much worse. He's usually exhasuted by the 3rd round if he doesn't get to lay on someone and completely control the pace in an easy fight, if you've happened to watch any fights besides his Hunt/Arlovski fight you'd know that

You know.... After the last title fight I wouldn't be saying much about Cain's cardio or his striking. Werdum, who admittedly is much improved standing, beat the piss out of Cain standing up. It wasn't really that close of a fight at all, that's why Cain had to basically commit fight suicide and shoot for a takedown

This is all so wrong to me that I don't even want to spend the time refuting each post. Cain is faster? Hits harder? LOL...laughable. His punches arent even technically sound. He's not a solid boxer at all. Any strikes he lands are dependent on his ability to wrestle and initiate a clinch. His footwork is almost non existent. These are all reasons that again, Werdum out classed him. He had none of it to rely on, and he gassed!


You would have a hard time finding another person to say Cain is a better striker than Stipe. They'd have to be bad judges of talent, at least boxing talent.

Stipe's cardio is amongst the best in the division and that Junior fight was his first time fighting for more than 15 minutes ever.

 

[xP]

Let me put this into perspective.

Stipe has a long reach even for HW (80").

He has fought EXACTLY one fighter with a longer reach (Struve - 84.5") and got his butt KTFO'd!!!

Since Struve raped Stipe, Stipe has fought nobody with reach > 77"!!!

- He lost to 77" reach JDS.
- He beat a fighter with 77" reach, but an even higher age in Arlovski. (OK good win against ONLY ranked fighter that he has ever beaten without T-Rex arms in the HW division!

He does beat HW fighters with particularly short arms that the UFC has padded his recent (4 YEAR) UFC career with. In descending sequence by reach!
76" Gonzaga
75" Maldonado (A LHW)
74" Hunt
72" Roy Nelson

Just out of curiosity, why is it that we think that Stipe is going to manage beating 77" reach Werdum again?

because reach is hardly a deciding factor and he's a better boxer than Werdum? Not that many people with 80+ reach anyway. There is Jones, Overeem, Browne off the top of my head.

No, they're both wrestler boxers who pressure, rarely kick, and like to use the clinch. How much closer can they get? Stipes the better striker? Who has he out struck? He lost to Struve and JDS. He wrestled Hunt.

Cain is much faster, hits harder, and puts together better combinations. All Stipe is really better at is defense.

Also Stipes cardio is much worse. He's usually exhasuted by the 3rd round if he doesn't get to lay on someone and completely control the pace in an easy fight, if you've happened to watch any fights besides his Hunt/Arlovski fight you'd know that

Stipe is an outside fighter whereas Cain is a pocket boxer. Stipe boxes his opponents and has much better footwork. Cain stood in front of Werdum and just swung at him. You admit Stipe's defense is better. So wouldn't an outside fighter with better defense do better against a kickboxer like Werdum? Stipe's cardio may be worse but all those shots to the head very clearly sapped Cain so couldn't the defense come into play there? Stipe has a better jab too and isn't reliant on forward pressure and his wrestling/clinching for his striking to be successful.

I'm still picking Werdum but Stipe can present a really tough fight for him and could certainly win.

 

[rjmbrd]

Stipe hasn't fought anyone with Werdum's qualities, and Werdum hasn't fought anyone with Stipe's qualities. This is why we have fights, to see how they matchup.

I like Stipe's boxing and footwork over Cain and I can see that giving Werdum problems. He's also still durable and wants the win very badly. Stipe is a good wrestler but I don't see him wanting to go to the ground.

In the last few years Werdum looks like his Fight IQ is threw the roof. That is a pretty big X factor for me at heavyweight where we don't generally see well rounded guys with a thoughtful game plan.

 

[kamikado]

"He hasn't fought someone like me" - Kenny Florian

 

[FlyingKimurabar]

You know.... After the last title fight I wouldn't be saying much about Cain's cardio or his striking. Werdum, who admittedly is much improved standing, beat the piss out of Cain standing up. It wasn't really that close of a fight at all, that's why Cain had to basically commit fight suicide and shoot for a takedown

This is all so wrong to me that I don't even want to spend the time refuting each post. Cain is faster? Hits harder? LOL...laughable. His punches arent even technically sound. He's not a solid boxer at all. Any strikes he lands are dependent on his ability to wrestle and initiate a clinch. His footwork is almost non existent. These are all reasons that again, Werdum out classed him. He had none of it to rely on, and he gassed!


You would have a hard time finding another person to say Cain is a better striker than Stipe. They'd have to be bad judges of talent, at least boxing talent.

Stipe's cardio is amongst the best in the division and that Junior fight was his first time fighting for more than 15 minutes ever.

Werdum has beat the piss out of everyone he's faced standing. He ko'd mark fucking hunt. He made Travis Browne look like a child. He's a better striker than anyone Stipe has ever out struck.

Stipe will gas too. Guess why he got knocked out by Struve? He was gassed.

What has Stipe done on the feet to impress you? Lose a round striking to Gonzaga and being unable to finish the non top 10 fighter with a weak chin? Getting beat up by completely destroyed past his prime JDS? Getting KO'd by Struve? Out wrestling mark hunt? Guess it must of been KOing Maldanado and Arlovski lol

 

[Taric]

Werdum has been around long enough that he's fought every style of fighter that has ever been used in MMA.

 

[Reaperman]

Stipe is a very crisp striker, and I think he can pick Werdum apart on the feet. Werdum does have a good chin though, and really isn't afraid of getting hit, and he is willing to weather a storm to get right in the pocket and throw.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Going to agree that Sergei's a similar fighter. But then, that's the sort of fighter that Werdum historically struggles with. Technical strikers with good TDD.

 

[djacobox372]

Arlovski, JDS and Overeem are all smilar, and he's only beaten one of them.

 

[bean88]

Werdum has fought much better fighters than Stipe...

That said Stipe could possibly give Werdum some trouble if it doesn't go to the ground. Just a boring statement t by him on how it's going to go.

Also Stefan Struve happened

 

[FlyingKimurabar]

because reach is hardly a deciding factor and he's a better boxer than Werdum? Not that many people with 80+ reach anyway. There is Jones, Overeem, Browne off the top of my head.



Stipe is an outside fighter whereas Cain is a pocket boxer. Stipe boxes his opponents and has much better footwork. Cain stood in front of Werdum and just swung at him. You admit Stipe's defense is better. So wouldn't an outside fighter with better defense do better against a kickboxer like Werdum? Stipe's cardio may be worse but all those shots to the head very clearly sapped Cain so couldn't the defense come into play there? Stipe has a better jab too and isn't reliant on forward pressure and his wrestling/clinching for his striking to be successful.

I'm still picking Werdum but Stipe can present a really tough fight for him and could certainly win.

How is stipe an outside boxer? He walks forward just like Cain. Only thing outside about him is his longer reach. It's not like he's out there boxing from the outside using lateral movement and a jab to keep opponents at bay. He moves forward, uses his boxing, and when possible he clinches/gets a takedown unless it's a bjj guy.

Stipe does have better defense and will present a little bit of a different problem, but Stipe and Cain are as close to fighting as almost any other fighters in MMA. Nobodys exactly the same, but they're damn close.

And I'm not saying Stipe isn't a tough fight, I think Cain was a very tough fight in the rematch.

Vegas had Cain like -150 in the rematch, and Stipe +200 against Werdum for the record.

 

[The Accuser]

Yeah, junior, who eeked out a semi controversial 5 round decision in a bloody fire fight is 'much better' than Stipe. Smart thinking there

It was only controversial if you take Rogan's bs commentating as an adequate description of the fight.

 

[Mr Moist]

I think Werdum will have to initiate the takedown if he wants the fight to the ground. So I think it's possible that Stipe can use a similar gameplan as Overeem, where Werdum would shoot for takedowns, get stuffed, and then Overeem would land shots. Granted, that is banking that Stipe can continuously stop the takedowns and that he is also getting the better of Werdum on the feet (which I think he can). So if he can, I think it's very possible he can stick and move to a decision. Stipe may not be as strong or as powerful of a striker as Overeem, but Stipe is faster, moves better, and throws more combinations. I would still slightly favor Werdum, because his grappling negates one of Stipe's strengths of takedowns and top control, and it also gives him more ways to win. But if Stipe can pick the right times to be agressive and attack, avoid clinching and grappling as much as possible (which will also help mantain his cardio), then I can see him pulling off a decision. Best case for Stipe is that he hurts Werdum early.

 

[fortheo]

I agree. Werdum has not fought weaker version of Cain yet.

What are you talking about? didn't you hear that Elevation cain is the weaker version of Cain? Shit man.