Economy Minimum-wage foes were wrong, forced to revise their understanding.

JosephDredd

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https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-24/what-minimum-wage-foes-got-wrong-about-seattle

What Minimum-Wage Foes Got Wrong About Seattle

An initial study said the increase to $15 would cost workers jobs and hours. That didn’t happen.


The dire warnings about minimum-wage increases keep proving to be wrong. So much so that in a new paper, the authors behind an earlier study predicting a negative impact have all but recanted their initial conclusions. However, the authors still seem perplexed about why they went awry in the first place.


Seattle, like some other thriving West Coast cities, a few years ago passed an ordinance raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour in a series of steps. The law was a partial response to rising income inequality and poverty in the city, which began its post-crisis economic boom well before the rest of the country.

The reaction was immediate, strident — and deeply wrong. The increase was an “economic death wish” that was going to tank the expansion and kill jobs, according to the sages at conservative think tanks. The warnings were as unambiguous as they were specific: Expect restaurants to close in significant numbers and unemployment to rise, all because of this foolish attempt to raise living standards.


Those ideologically opposed to mandated minimum-wage increases freaked out when a Seattle pizza parlor closed. Meanwhile, they ignored data showing Seattle-area employment in the restaurant industry on the rise. The critics even blamed Seattle’s minimum wage law for unemployment in suburbs not covered by Seattle’s laws. Despite their dire forecasts, not only were new restaurants not closing, they were in fact opening;
employment in food services and drinking establishments has soared, as the chart below shows:

Alas, if only the critics has done their homework first, instead of using scare tactics.

Much of the hand-wringing was based upon a deeply flawed University of Washington study. As we noted in 2017, the study’s fatal flaw was that its analysis excluded large multistate businesses with more than one location. When thinking about the impact of raising minimum wages, one can’t simply omit most of the biggest minimum-wage employers in the region, such as McDonald’s and other fast-food chains, or Wal-Mart and other major retailers. These are the very employers that were the main target of the minimum-wage law; indeed, the law established an even higher minimum wage of $15.45 an hour for companies with 500 or more employees.

There were two other glaring defects in the first study that are worth mentioning. The first is that its findings contradicted the vast majority research on minimum wages. As was demonstrated back in 1994 by economists Alan Krueger and David Card, modest, gradual wage increases have not been shown to reduce employment or hours worked in any significant way. Ignoring that body of research without a very good reason made the initial University of Washington study questionable at best.


Second, there potentially is a problem with having a lead researcher — economist Jacob Vigdor, whose affiliations among others include the right-leaning Manhattan Institute — whose impartiality is open to question. I don’t wish to suggest people cannot have opinions, but researchers need to be open-minded. This especially true in fields like economics and public policy, where belief systems and political affiliations can have an outsized impact on objectivity.

Full article at link. I felt this needed to be posted because I remember when the original prophecy of doom was posted here.
 
Glad that worked out. Because otherwise you're forcing govt and charities to do what the companies don't. So in effect you're subsiding the companies cheapness.
 
Seattle residents can afford to support a higher minimum wage for its service employees. I still don't like the idea of a minimum wage (the real minimum is always $0.00, we just add a discontinuity), but it should be a local ordinance if we're going to have one.
 
a minimum wage at a city level makes sense. a minimum wage at a state or federal level doesn't
 
a minimum wage at a city level makes sense. a minimum wage at a state or federal level doesn't

This is what a lot of people dont understand. 15 an hour would leave you homeless is some parts of the country, but in others you could buy a 2 bedroom rambler on half an acre making that. Location matters.
 
This is what a lot of people dont understand. 15 an hour would leave you homeless is some parts of the country, but in others you could buy a 2 bedroom rambler on half an acre making that. Location matters.

And then you also have to consider that our current federal minimum wage isn't sufficient anywhere.

Location does matter but even our floor is too low.
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-24/what-minimum-wage-foes-got-wrong-about-seattle



Full article at link. I felt this needed to be posted because I remember when the original prophecy of doom was posted here.
How are small businesses handling the market in Seattle with the high wage law? Sure huge multistate companies can handle the wage law just fine, but what about actual small businesses? So far I have found this from Forbes. https://www.forbes.com/sites/eshach...5-minimum-wage-new-site-reports/#1bd8193211ad


“When the $15 minimum wage is fully phased in, my company would be losing in excess of $200,000 a year (and far more if my workforce grows as anticipated). That may be a drop in the bucket for large corporations, but a small business cannot absorb such losses….Today, it’s cool to be a tech startup in Silicon Valley, but not to be an apparel industry startup in the San Fernando Valley. That needs to change.”
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-24/what-minimum-wage-foes-got-wrong-about-seattle



Full article at link. I felt this needed to be posted because I remember when the original prophecy of doom was posted here.

Good article. Seems to completely allow for the idea that this does hurt small business, but that large business employs more people, and their increase in purchasing power and consumption outweighs the lost small business jobs.

Was expecting another article that just argues one side while dismissing the other. Pleasently surprised.
 
Good article. Seems to completely allow for the idea that this does hurt small business, but that large business employs more people, and their increase in purchasing power and consumption outweighs the lost small business jobs.

Was expecting another article that just argues one side while dismissing the other. Pleasently surprised.
Well google tells me that Large business makes up 40% of Seattle's employment, which means that 60% is small business. So I would think harming small business is a bad thing, unless there is more data out there suggesting that small business is doing fine as well. Hence my early questions.
 
Well google tells me that Large business makes up 40% of Seattle's employment, which means that 60% is small business. So I would think harming small business is a bad thing, unless there is more data out there suggesting that small business is doing fine as well. Hence my early questions.

Wrong question.

What % of the minimum wage employers are small business vs large?

The service sector is the largest employer in the US, and it is dominated by large corporations.
 
Wrong question.

What % of the minimum wage employers are small business vs large?

The service sector is the largest employer in the US, and it is dominated by large corporations.
It is not the wrong question don't be rude. That does not change that in that area, 60% of employment came from small business. I want to know if the law was positive for negative for small business considering that in that area they were the majority of jobs.
 
It is not the wrong question don't be rude. That does not change that in that area, 60% of employment came from small business. I want to know if the law was positive for negative for small business considering that in that area they were the majority of jobs.

But they weren't the majority effected by this law.

You need to ask the right question, to get to the real answer.

Why the fuck should we look at a machine shop with 30 employees, who pay their workers 30$ an hour. That has nothing to do with this. Likewise, Boeing or Microsoft paying 30$ an hour has nothing to do with this.

What we need to count to measure this, is minimum wage employers. Their are allot more Wal-Mart and McDonald's jobs, then diners.
 
I think we need to go back and revisit a lot of doomsday threads and highlight the stupidity of them. Caravan thread anyone?
I called it fake news, a hoax and CGI

Has anyone proved me wrong yet
 
a minimum wage at a city level makes sense. a minimum wage at a state or federal level doesn't
Virginia is as great example of that. It split apart with the growth of the federal government and it's basically 2 different states now. The northern part of the state is part of the DC metro economy and is super rich, super expensive, super diverse, super high tech. The southern part of the state is the typical poor as fuck South with only white and black people. The northern part of the state could realistically use a minimum wage of like $12/ hour or something, and the southern part like $8 - anything higher and places shut down.
 
So if restaurant patronage is up does that mean a sizable chunk of the extra wages earned by these low-income folks is being spent on going out to eat?
 
Just add it to the list...

labor_history.png
 
So if restaurant patronage is up does that mean a sizable chunk of the extra wages earned by these low-income folks is being spent on going out to eat?

You mean if people earn more they spend more?!
 
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