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Military Roll Call! Veterans, GTFIH!

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Thai Domi, Jun 16, 2016.

  1. San Marino Blue Belt Platinum Member

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    U.S. Army getting stupid again. Who comes up with this 'shit'?

    Army Combat Badge (bottom): Created in 2005. Don't need it since soldier gets to wear a 'combat patch' from unit he/she was in theater with. Bayonet and grenade? Don't really see or use either. Stupid.
    [​IMG]

    Expert Soldier Badge: Now, the Army is planning to come out with the 'Expert Soldier Badge' (above). 80% of the required tasks come from the EIB test. Why does the rest of the Army have to imitate the Infantry?

    Combat Infantry Badge:
    [​IMG]

    Expert Infantryman Badge: Musket without the reef.

    More past stupid stuff created by the Army:
    . Black beret
    . U.S. flag on battle uniform

    * On the positive side, the new Army Greens uniform looks good - "pinks and greens".
    -
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  2. ChoppyChoppyPeePee Steel Belt

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    Dumbest thing is someone prior service who joins the Army would still be a slick sleeve and not allowed to wear a combat patch of the unit they deployed with to Afghan/Iraq.
     
  3. Mike Hagger Brown Belt

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    Depends on the time that person was separated and their previous rank.

    The Guard may give more leeway to honoring previous rank. The combat patch thing is hardly enforced. Only a douchebag would sit around and call out something like that.
     
  4. Blayt7hh Steel Belt

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    This is an overreaction. I have problems with the CAB, but not for the reason you gave. The same can be said for the CMB and CIB. The difference between all three of those and a deployment patch is that the badge means you were in actual combat and not just in a combat zone. At first I scoffed at the expert action badge like most people did. But I kind of get it for the young soldiers. It's something for them to strive for and separate themselves from their peers. You also said why should they imitate infantry, and I ask why shouldn't they? It's the most important branch in the Army.

    The problem I have with the CAB vs the CIB/CMB is that it just requires you to be around combat. You don't have to perform unlike the other two. If they changed that aspect of it, I would be perfectly fine with it. If a cook or a truck driver gets into a fire fight and returns fire effectively, then why shouldn't he get recognized all the same?
     
  5. Mike Hagger Brown Belt

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    Just so everyone can see the award criteria:

    Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.

    If a mechanic on a FOB has a mortar land 200m from his position; I believe so long as he didn’t have a few NDs on the way to a bunker - he’s good to go for his CAB.

    The CIB requirement:

    (3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.

    who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat.

    A few terms, actively participated, satisfactorily performed duty... theres some room for subjectivity of commanders but generally the criteria is interpreted that one engaged effectively the enemy, or was “effectively” themselves. It’s hard to not give a CIB to an infantryman that was shot because he didn’t engage the enemy back...

    The CAB is much more open ended, I think you should have a very similar criteria for the CAB as the CIB. A little less strict, sure but because your FOB took incoming and you happened to be in the chow line a mile away is not worthy.

    What pisses me off is that I’ve fought in Iraq, Afghanistan, and another place.. yet I got no star on my CIB. I theorize that’s a few old generals protecting their special star they got from desert storm, or maybe panama.
     
  6. ChoppyChoppyPeePee Steel Belt

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    The criteria for a CAR is taking direct fire and returning fire. Or at least it was before the GWOT. Then people who hit IEDs got them. And then people like me who never fired a shot outside the wire got ‘em.
     
  7. San Marino Blue Belt Platinum Member

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    You bring up some good points. Yeah, I noticed they listed the CAB as ACB on the picture above. So here are my thoughts on your views...

    I started in the U.S. Army as an Infantry soldier back in 1988. Back then there were no CABs. We didn't wear a U.S. flag on our BDUs. Rangers wore the 'black' beret and only Airborne, Ranger, and Special Forces wore berets. Ranger school was only for the Infantry and male soldiers. Now, this has all changed. Is it for the better? I don't know. The CIB was created in 1943 and the CMB created in 1945. This due to the medics that followed the Infantry into battle.

    I guess I am an 'old-timer' and 'old-school' kind of guy. I don't favor gays in the military or women in the Infantry. Marines and their award system works differently. They don't get to wear a lot of the stuff soldiers wear on their uniform. Same can be said of the Army uniform and awards back in 1945. I think the less stuff the better. Only essential ribbons and qualifications, which I believe we have too many of in the U.S. Army.

    Want to imitate the Infantry so bad, be an Infantry soldier. Don't 'water down' the symbolism of the CIB, beret, or Ranger tab. Why not follow the Air Force with their beret system of colors? This is all part of the new Politically Correct (PC) world. Thanks to Obama. All students get an 'A' in class regardless of the fact they don't know how to read or write. In sports, everyone gets a medal or trophy. There are no losers. Same mentality has now rolled into the U.S. military and the U.S. Army. Every soldier, regardless of MOS, is now an Infantryman or Infantrywoman.

    I remember when a British soldier once asked me about the EIB. Why do you guys wear (have) that? Shouldn't every Infantry soldier in the U.S. Army be qualified on those tasks? Yeah, they should. I don't know that the Infantry really needs the EIB. I believe the ESB to be a retention tool in the Army. In some ways a 'showoff' badge. Why a bayonet and grenade as a symbol? How often do you get to use those two items?

    Remember the Army Physical Fitness Badge? Not a fan. I thought that too was a joke. Do I care what you scored on your APFT? No. Why not wear that on your uniform? Napoleon was a fan of ribbons for his French soldiers. I think that is where a lot of these traditions got started. But again, Infantry soldiers take the brunt of the fighting in ground warfare. They take the most casualties and injuries. They make up a very small percentage of the soldiers doing the actual fighting and should be recognized for it.

    Also, why does the Sergeant Major of the U.S. Army need a flag?

    Anyway, just my 2 cents for what it is worth, and I know a lot of folks will disagree with me. o_O
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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  8. ChoppyChoppyPeePee Steel Belt

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    Did infantry have the blue cord back then?
    The Army also has brown berets now for the SFABs.
     
  9. Blayt7hh Steel Belt

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    I get where you are coming from. I had a former marine as a platoon sergeant when I first got in the Army that would make fun of people for “wearing their ERB”. He always came in with nothing but his deployment patch, but he actually had like 4 badges and two tabs. I have conflicting opinions here. I’m not a big fan of the peacocking, but at the same time I understand that it gives Soldiers something to aspire to.

    To put some of your fears at rest though, no one respects the CAB as much as the CIB and CMB. I forgot about those PT badges until you mentioned it, those were such a joke. I’m not even sure what happened to those I haven’t seen one in ages. I guess they got rid of it when we changed uniforms?
     
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  10. San Marino Blue Belt Platinum Member

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    Yes, it did.
    The 'blue cord' has been around since 1902. Current version since 1952. I got it after graduation from AIT. Not a fan...
     
  11. ChoppyChoppyPeePee Steel Belt

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    They let him wear his combat patch?
     
  12. ChoppyChoppyPeePee Steel Belt

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    I like the blue cord. And the crossed rifles branch insignia.
    Infantry OSUT is 22 weeks now.
     
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  13. San Marino Blue Belt Platinum Member

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    Yeah, that would be the combat patch on the right shoulder and unit patch on the left shoulder.

    Hey @Mike Hagger, what's wrong with this picture?
    [​IMG]
    Some idiot on eBay actually posted this. Must have been a Ranger. o_O
     
  14. Blayt7hh Steel Belt

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    What do you mean? His Marine Corp combat patch? I don't think he ever deployed as a Marine, I think he was in the Marines in the 90s

    But if he had a Marine corp combat patch then yeah he could have worn it. I've known a few guys that transitioned and wore their patch from the Marines
     
  15. Born in the USA Redacted

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  16. Mike Hagger Brown Belt

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    Rangers lead the way!
     
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  17. Mike Hagger Brown Belt

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    If the army did not award a combat patch then you can’t wear one.

    Plenty of people do, but technically you can’t.
     
  18. ChoppyChoppyPeePee Steel Belt

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    It’s technically not allowed for prior service guys to wear a deployment patch for going to Afghan/Iraq.
     
  19. San Marino Blue Belt Platinum Member

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    ...and the 1st Infantry Division (The Big Red One) is infamous for violating the Army's subdued patch rule.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ...with Marine combat patch:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  20. ChoppyChoppyPeePee Steel Belt

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    The second pic is a soldier who was attached to a marine unit in Iraq. Not prior service.
     

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