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Different than what it was supposed to be.

I don't think you would find a GB that agrees with a shortened approach, a more streamlined course would be beneficial to remove the waiting between phases stuff. The team is where a new guy gets the best training anyways. I'll say, cutting SUT is not something I agree with. Considering most OPs being conducted right out of the Ranger handbook for raid, clearance, and react to contact. The experience of doing that with a partner force that numbers often in the 100's+.. you have got to be switched on. You graduate the Q and immediately you're a PL Sgt, but your guys don't speak english.. shit gets real, real fast.
 
Different than what it was supposed to be.

I don't think you would find a GB that agrees with a shortened approach, a more streamlined course would be beneficial to remove the waiting between phases stuff. The team is where a new guy gets the best training anyways. I'll say, cutting SUT is not something I agree with. Considering most OPs being conducted right out of the Ranger handbook for raid, clearance, and react to contact. The experience of doing that with a partner force that numbers often in the 100's+.. you have got to be switched on. You graduate the Q and immediately you're a PL Sgt, but your guys don't speak english.. shit gets real, real fast.
Can't help but think this has something to do with women. Do you know if SEAL training is also being reduced in training days? This should hit across the border in the Special Operations community.
 
@Mike Hagger, @TheHigherPower - from RallyPoint.com:

Q course reduced to 24 Weeks - SGM Gregory Taracon

"It can be done; and for some the pipeline can be shorter. If a soldier already has a language and can test out it shortens the course. Also some service members have completed SERE C, and other courses also shorten the course."

"After reading the article, my guess is the main motivation for shortening the course is cost savings. The #1 reason for changing or cutting something out in the military has historically been save money and keep within a budget. Its a challenge for 1st Special Forces Command to continue to produce operators for the force with a shrinking budget. With that said; I am deeply concerned that it is a step backwards. There was a time not long ago that candidates going through the pipeline would not meet graduation requirements if they did not score at least a 1/1 on the DLPT for language. I also remember that an SF Team could not deploy on JCETs to a Foreign if they did not have a certain number of 2/2 level speakers on the team. Because Language was a critical part of Unconventional Warfare."
 
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@Mike Hagger, @TheHigherPower - from RallyPoint.com:

Q course reduced to 24 Weeks - SGM Gregory Taracon

"It can be done; and for some the pipeline can be shorter. If a soldier already has a language and can test out it shortens the course. Also some service members have completed SERE C, and other courses also shorten the course."

"After reading the article, my guess is the main motivation for shortening the course is cost savings. The #1 reason for changing or cutting something out in the military has historically been save money and keep within a budget. Its a challenge for 1st Special Forces Command to continue to produce operators for the force with a shrinking budget. With that said; I am deeply concerned that it is a step backwards. There was a time not long ago that candidates going through the pipeline would not meet graduation requirements if they did not score at least a 1/1 on the DLPT for language. I also remember that an SF Team could deploy on JCETs to a Foreign if they did not have a certain number of 2/2 level speakers on the team. Because Language was a critical part of Unconventional Warfare."

On the UK side years ago the SBS recruitment numbers for selection were low because many did not want to be divers and were applying for SAS selection instead... (the diving portion was/is also a large portion of the training pipeline)

...so to encourage applicants they opened it up and made the diving section optional to a degree (but that meant guys who were badged didn't get the dive pay either $$$)

It is sad to hear about the USSF side though, I'd like for my boy to go for SF selection here when he is older...the training opportunities/skills to be learned are excellent. In the UK military language coursesis down to chance in alot of ways...as opposed to ensuring everyone spends months learning it.
 
It is sad to hear about the USSF side though, I'd like for my boy to go for SF selection here when he is older...the training opportunities/skills to be learned are excellent. In the UK military language courses is down to chance in a lot of ways...as opposed to ensuring everyone spends months learning it.
Interesting how this language issue keeps some U.S. soldiers from being SF qualified. I think here in the U.S., the ability to speak a second language is not as important as it is in Europe and South America. English is the world's primary language, so there is no incentive to learn another language. Portuguese (Brazil) was my first language, followed by English and Spanish. In U.S. schools today, I think Spanish and French are the primary foreign languages being thought. Arabic and Chinese seem to be the languages of choice for the U.S. Army. The Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA, is the place to go. My unit had soldiers going to DLI in Monterey or using Rosetta Stone. Portuguese is what got me drafted into Civil Affairs and a tour with the U.S. Embassy in Brazil.
 
Came across this story and was interested in knowing what you guys think of it.

Heartbroken Dad Demands Change in Navy SEAL Training After Son's Death

Link: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...change-navy-seal-training-after-son-s-n589101

"After 50 hours without sleep and a punishing series of drills, Danny DelBianco, who’d played rugby at the University of Southern California, couldn't take any more. Like most of the young men who attempt it, he rang a ceremonial bell and dropped out of the punishing SEAL training course. He placed his green helmet in a line next to the ones worn by other drop-outs, and walked toward the barracks... A few hours later, on April 5, he walked off a ledge on the 22nd floor of a Marriott hotel in San Diego. He was 23 years old."

"The washouts remain in the Navy, but some of them are never the same after enduring a brutal training regimen that can induce symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, former SEALs and trainees say... Many who enter SEALs training are top athletes with driven personalities who have rarely failed at anything. But after they quit or are too hurt to continue, they are shuffled off to work jobs on the base on Coronado, near San Diego, where their former teammates are still pursuing their lost dream."


Now, BUD/S Phase 1 is 7 weeks in duration with weekends off. The U.S. Army Ranger school is 61 days in duration with no weekends off. U.S. Special Forces SFAS also has no weekends off. @Mike Hagger can verify this.

I personally don't think it is up to the U.S. Navy or the U.S. Army to provide 'counseling' to sailors or soldiers who quit an elite military school. They knew the challenge going in. Many try a second or third time and succeed. Either way, life, and your career in the military, goes on. There is no shame in quitting. It is not for everyone. I feel sorry for Danny DelBianco and his family, but think there were mental problems with DelBianco long before he tried to become a SEAL. Failure is part of life. Those that can't accept this are in for a very difficult road.

@BillytheFish, @Strychnine, @sub_thug
 
Came across this story and was interested in knowing what you guys think of it.

Heartbroken Dad Demands Change in Navy SEAL Training After Son's Death

Link: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...change-navy-seal-training-after-son-s-n589101

"After 50 hours without sleep and a punishing series of drills, Danny DelBianco, who’d played rugby at the University of Southern California, couldn't take any more. Like most of the young men who attempt it, he rang a ceremonial bell and dropped out of the punishing SEAL training course. He placed his green helmet in a line next to the ones worn by other drop-outs, and walked toward the barracks... A few hours later, on April 5, he walked off a ledge on the 22nd floor of a Marriott hotel in San Diego. He was 23 years old."

"The washouts remain in the Navy, but some of them are never the same after enduring a brutal training regimen that can induce symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, former SEALs and trainees say... Many who enter SEALs training are top athletes with driven personalities who have rarely failed at anything. But after they quit or are too hurt to continue, they are shuffled off to work jobs on the base on Coronado, near San Diego, where their former teammates are still pursuing their lost dream."


Now, BUD/S Phase 1 is 7 weeks in duration with weekends off. The U.S. Army Ranger school is 61 days in duration with no weekends off. U.S. Special Forces SFAS also has no weekends off. @Mike Hagger can verify this.

I personally don't think it is up to the U.S. Navy or the U.S. Army to provide 'counseling' to sailors or soldiers who quit an elite military school. They knew the challenge going in. Many try a second or third time and succeed. Either way, life, and your career in the military, goes on. There is no shame in quitting. It is not for everyone. I feel sorry for Danny DelBianco and his family, but think there were mental problems with DelBianco long before he tried to become a SEAL. Failure is part of life. Those that can't accept this are in for a very difficult road.

@BillytheFish, @Strychnine, @sub_thug
Change nothing. I feel bad for the family but the integrity of the teams is more important.
 
Man...

I've known plenty of Corpsmen and AF medics I worked with when, I asked "Did you choose Corpsman/Med Tech?" They'd reply "Nope, washed out of BUDs". I totally get how you can be focused on being this right now, but if it doesn't happen right then, you can try later.

When he took his life, then he had issues before he went to BUDs. Life is all about trying again. I don't think he had that in him. :(

He took his own life and that is indeed a tragedy, but you can't change the program because of it. He still could've gone on to do great things...
 
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@Phr3121 I think it is just like any other business, when you sign a contract there are certain protections an employer has to provide...you know the whole duty of care thing. I don't necessarily see it as a good/effecting thing, but it's definitely only going to get worse.

On a related note though, I've had access to many current serving and former military personnel's medical files (through a previous training qualification)....and this is anecdotal evidence obviously...but around 15 out of the 20 guys records stated they were alcoholics/mental issues/recorded childhood issues BEFORE joining the military.

Then they serve 4 years, maybe do a tour in Iraq and everyone (including themselves) blames it on the military and demands the military help. I know physicians are totally pressured into treating soldiers for PTSD that they know wasn't caused by the military- that is fact and plenty of info online about that.
 
On a related note though, I've had access to many current serving and former military personnel's medical files (through a previous training qualification)....and this is anecdotal evidence obviously...but around 15 out of the 20 guys records stated they were alcoholics/mental issues/recorded childhood issues BEFORE joining the military.
What I read was that we had around 25 veterans a day (average) committing suicide in the U.S. The interesting thing is that the majority of these individuals had never deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.
 
What I read was that we had around 25 veterans a day (average) committing suicide in the U.S. The interesting thing is that the majority of these individuals had never deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.

I'll see if I can find a study I found a while back, it basically analysed the so-called higher suicide rates of British soldiers compared with civilians of the same age. The in-depth analysis came to the conclusion the number of suicides by veterans wasn't significantly different to civilians of the same ages
 
Came across this story and was interested in knowing what you guys think of it.

Heartbroken Dad Demands Change in Navy SEAL Training After Son's Death

Link: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...change-navy-seal-training-after-son-s-n589101

"After 50 hours without sleep and a punishing series of drills, Danny DelBianco, who’d played rugby at the University of Southern California, couldn't take any more. Like most of the young men who attempt it, he rang a ceremonial bell and dropped out of the punishing SEAL training course. He placed his green helmet in a line next to the ones worn by other drop-outs, and walked toward the barracks... A few hours later, on April 5, he walked off a ledge on the 22nd floor of a Marriott hotel in San Diego. He was 23 years old."

"The washouts remain in the Navy, but some of them are never the same after enduring a brutal training regimen that can induce symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, former SEALs and trainees say... Many who enter SEALs training are top athletes with driven personalities who have rarely failed at anything. But after they quit or are too hurt to continue, they are shuffled off to work jobs on the base on Coronado, near San Diego, where their former teammates are still pursuing their lost dream."


Now, BUD/S Phase 1 is 7 weeks in duration with weekends off. The U.S. Army Ranger school is 61 days in duration with no weekends off. U.S. Special Forces SFAS also has no weekends off. @Mike Hagger can verify this.

I personally don't think it is up to the U.S. Navy or the U.S. Army to provide 'counseling' to sailors or soldiers who quit an elite military school. They knew the challenge going in. Many try a second or third time and succeed. Either way, life, and your career in the military, goes on. There is no shame in quitting. It is not for everyone. I feel sorry for Danny DelBianco and his family, but think there were mental problems with DelBianco long before he tried to become a SEAL. Failure is part of life. Those that can't accept this are in for a very difficult road.

@BillytheFish, @Strychnine, @sub_thug
I mean, it's called Hell Week for a reason.
And Ranger School can't be that tough since a 38 year old female reservist mom passed with flying colors. :p
 
And Ranger School can't be that tough since a 38 year old female reservist mom passed with flying colors. :p
Yeap, you got that right. I'll bet my grandmother could get a Ranger tab these days...
Try going through it in 1992 when it was longer with 'desert' phase. ;)
 
Yeap, you got that right. I'll bet my grandmother could get a Ranger tab these days...
Try going through it in 1992 when it was longer with 'desert' phase. ;)
"Well back in MY day..."
 
Just a few weeks ago I was at gun show, guy had a silver star on his collar, so I asked where he got it. He said in Vietnam, where'd you serve I asked his answer: Special Forces, Airborne, Ranger, served all over... Ok I'm thinking, which group? Well he said did not really serve in a group... I left it at that, that's suspect in my opinion but what am I going to do? I let it go. Maybe he's truthful but typically you'd know what group you called 'home'.

The SF community in general mostly is focused on people who profit from these lies. Which they're many and that's where I draw the line.

It's funny to me when people lie about dumbshit like Air Assault.. or when anyone tells me their job was classified... It's not impossible to be that thing but it's highly unlikely and those who do those things wouldn't say some cliche BS they'd have something benign.
Lol you had people tell you their job was classified? Ive heard it once before and believed it because he was a CIA officer. But ive spoken with sf guys who freely told me about some of their missions. You know their full of shit if they said it was classified.
 
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