Mikey Garcia vs Lomachenko

Alright @Seano , I can share the fight video because the UFC uploaded it to YouTube. It's a free fight. I marked the time for you already bud. Please, dispute this. Be sure to listen to the commentary.



Here's a slow motion GIF that I made just for you as well. Rory was game and fighting well before he got cracked in his nose (which was already broken) with a hard left straight. As Rogan said (and myself), the pain is why he went down and stopped fighting. "But that one punch, it was the straw that broke the camel's back". Lawler then clearly misses his first follow-up shot, misses/grazes (at best) his second and his last follow-up punch in the GNP sequence lands on Rory's wrist/glove.



Here's a frame of the last GNP punch that Lawler "unloaded" on Rory. It was blocked as Rory was already shelled up turtling immediately as he started to fall to the ground. Take a look.

6yPi3eQ.jpg


But hey, badly broken noses can't end fights. Wrong.

Rory's nose has now been operated on multiple times. It's never been the same and never will be. It was broken again in his last fight against Thompson, in which he lost, but not badly. He had it operated on twice after the Lawler fight. This would be his third surgery now.

MacDonald next faced Stephen Thompson on June 18, 2016 at UFC Fight Night 89.[41] He lost the fight via unanimous decision.[42] His nose was busted in the later part of the Thompson fight, visibly affecting MacDonald. It seems to be a recurring injury after the nose was shattered against Lawler in 2015.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_MacDonald_(fighter)
 
Last edited:
Alright @Seano , I can share the fight video because the UFC uploaded it to YouTube. It's a free fight. I marked the time for you already bud. Please, dispute this. Be sure to listen to the commentary.



Here's a slow motion GIF that I made just for you as well. Rory was game and fighting well before he got cracked in his nose (which was already broken) with a hard left straight. As Rogan said (and myself), the pain is why he went down and stopped fighting. "But that one punch, it was the straw that broke the camel's back". Lawler then clearly misses his first follow-up shot, misses/grazes (at best) his second and his last follow-up punch in the GNP sequence lands on Rory's wrist/glove.



Here's a frame of the last GNP punch that Lawler "unloaded" on Rory. It was blocked as Rory was already shelled up turtling immediately as he started to fall to the ground. Take a look.

6yPi3eQ.jpg


But hey, badly broken noses can't end fights. Wrong.

Again, this is nothing like the ending of Garcia/Salido. Not the same thing at all. You're just picking fights where guys got their noses broke. The ref didn't stop the Lawler fight for a broken nose.
 
Again, this is nothing like the ending of Garcia/Salido. Not the same thing at all. You're just picking fights where guys got their noses broke. The ref didn't stop the Lawler fight for a broken nose.

The ref stopped the fight because Rory went to the canvas and stopped fighting back. Lawler pursued with follow-up punches that didn't land, as I easily proved. The ref didn't know that Rory's nose was shattered and he went down from the pain, he just knew he wasn't fighting back. The left straight that Lawler landed that put him down, due to pain, was the finish. It wasn't the follow-up shots that never landed, Rory wasn't fighting back.

Stop trying to side step around this. Here was the quote I took issue with. You didn't type this? You did.

Accidental foul is why it went to the cards.

My problem is that I don't believe a broken nose is an injury that renders a fighter unable to continue.

End of discussion.
 
The ref stopped the fight because Rory went to the canvas and stopped fighting back. Lawler pursued with follow-up punches that didn't land, as I easily proved. The ref didn't know that Rory's nose was shattered and he went down from the pain, he just knew he wasn't fighting back. The left straight that Lawler landed that put him down, due to pain, was the finish. It wasn't the follow-up shots that never landed, Rory wasn't fighting back.

Stop trying to side step around this. Here was the quote I took issue with. You didn't type this? You did.



End of discussion.
You're being deliberately ignorant and you know it.
 
I addressed a misinformed quote that you made. That isn't me being ignorant, that's addressing ignorance.
No, you are being DELIBERATELY ignorant and trying to act as though your example is the same thing when no one could possibly be dumb enough to think they are the same.

There's no way that you are actually that stupid.
 
No, you are being DELIBERATELY ignorant and trying to act as though your example is the same thing when no one could possibly be dumb enough to think they are the same.

There's no way that you are actually that stupid.

Show me where I said that this was the same thing? For the third (?) time now, I addressed a cut and dry quote that you made. If anything, it was YOU being deliberately ignorant saying stupid shit like this.

My problem is that I don't believe a broken nose is an injury that renders a fighter unable to continue.

Impaired breathing if the nose is broken badly and obstructing the nasal passage(s), a rapid amount of blood loss making a fighter feel woozy (dizzy), pain to different degrees from mild to excruciating (in the case of a shattered nose) at the time of the break and punches that hit the nose after.

What will you say next, fighters have no heart if they can't continue after having ribs broken? That can affect your breathing too, you know, and cause plenty of pain. Get a good body puncher in there and you won't want to continue either because they'll see you favoring that side and go for it like a dog on a bone. Same with a bad cut, fighters know to target it in order to make it even worse to affect their opponent's vision from blood leaking into their eye (which can get a fight stopped).

On the subject of Garcia, he would've still had 4 rounds to go against a head first charging Salido looking to butt him more and smash his already broken nose in with his fists. He's the dirtiest fighter around today. Mikey said he was having issues breathing properly after the break, but, even if he milked it to get the win, so what? That's gaming the system. It's a skill to con officials into getting what you want, assuming that was the case if we don't give him the benefit of the doubt. Ask guys like B-Hop. Old veteran tactics at work.
 
Doctors don't stop fights for broken ribs either. A fighter can quit because of it if he wants but thats not what we're talking about.
 
Doctors don't stop fights for broken ribs either. A fighter can quit because of it if he wants but thats not what we're talking about.

If a rib was sticking out due to a compound fracture then I'm pretty sure a doctor would care. Obviously, I was talking about a fighter no longer feeling fit to continue on their own accord. You can't strawman me twice in a row.
 
Can we talk about the potential matchup instead of falling for Seano's contrarian trolling again?

I think Lomo is to slick and athletic for Mikey who is a little straight up and down even at his best.

So do I, but Garcia isn't going to go out of his way to fight Lomachenko, nor is Loma. For one, they're in different weight classes obviously. Garcia wants to get down to Lightweight and see how he feels there, but he's not there yet. Loma just moved up to Jr. Lightweight but is planning on moving up to Lightweight after his next couple fights, from what I've read. If that happens, and Garcia manages to get down to 135, with both looking impressive or either one of them titling, then I could see it happening.

Loma gets sparring in over at Robert's gym in Oxnard. Robert isn't his coach there but he does have some strong ties to his gym and they all respect him and vice versa. Fighting Robert's brother Mikey isn't likely something either one actually wants. I've only heard that Mikey "would" fight Loma at 135 if they end up being two of the top guys there down the line.

If they do eventually fight then Mikey can't just lunge in against Loma, especially straight on. He isn't fleet footed and his hands aren't too fast either. His angles aren't there at times and his footwork is nowhere near the same level. Rocky dropped him in their fight with a counter right when Mikey lunged in with a left looking to fire his right hand. What Mikey can do well is punch and pressure. Compared to Loma he is pretty straight up and down, as you said. But he did/does have good timing and power along with combination punching and he knows how to attack the body intelligently (a liver shot finished Rocky) when he sees an opening.
 
Alright @Seano , I can share the fight video because the UFC uploaded it to YouTube. It's a free fight. I marked the time for you already bud. Please, dispute this. Be sure to listen to the commentary.



Here's a slow motion GIF that I made just for you as well. Rory was game and fighting well before he got cracked in his nose (which was already broken) with a hard left straight. As Rogan said (and myself), the pain is why he went down and stopped fighting. "But that one punch, it was the straw that broke the camel's back". Lawler then clearly misses his first follow-up shot, misses/grazes (at best) his second and his last follow-up punch in the GNP sequence lands on Rory's wrist/glove.



Here's a frame of the last GNP punch that Lawler "unloaded" on Rory. It was blocked as Rory was already shelled up turtling immediately as he started to fall to the ground. Take a look.

6yPi3eQ.jpg


But hey, badly broken noses can't end fights. Wrong.

Rory's nose has now been operated on multiple times. It's never been the same and never will be. It was broken again in his last fight against Thompson, in which he lost, but not badly. He had it operated on twice after the Lawler fight. This would be his third surgery now.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_MacDonald_(fighter)

Just curious did he quit on the Thompson fight ?
 
Should a fighter be allowed to continue with a bad injury, be it a cut or broken bone, if he wishes to continue?

Obviously the doctor often forces a fight to end when there is a bad cut, but it is more rare that a doctor stops a fight due to a broken bone. Which is odd in a way, because both can lead to further injury. A cut prevents the fighter from seeing, but a nose can prevent a fighter from breathing, and a badly broken jaw means you cannot bite down on your mouth guard which is also very dangerous.
I think the biggest factor here is that it was a foul and went to the cards. If he had broken it with a punch it would have resulted in the same stoppage. There can be a problem of doctors being influenced but that is not supposed to happen. I remember it happened in one of Chavez' fights when he told Flip Homansky he couldn't continue.

Corrales was stopped due to a cut lip but since it wasn't caused by a foul he just lost. The Hernandez and Vasquez fights are good examples of broken noses being severe enough to cause a stoppage. If they were suffered do to fouls those also would have gone to the cards. Wouldn't call those guys quitters for realizing they can't continue if they can't breathe or that further blows could cause permanent damage.

Even cuts can expose nerves or cause damage that could create permanent problems. We all admire guys like Abraham, and Marciano that fought with a split nose, but sometimes you have to take make the choice for guys that are willing to fight to the death. That's why we rely on the doctors to decide when a fighter has had enough.
 
Ahh yeah that's where I thought the lines were split in the discussion.

To me it comes down to this: would the doctor have stopped the fight and given Garcia a loss if that same damage came from a punch? I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. And if it's not bad enough to stop the fight, it's not bad enough to stop the fight - period. And I don't think any of us want to start seeing fights stopped because a guy got popped good and broke his nose.
That's why the doctor is supposed to make a ruling on the injury. We may not want to see the fight stopped but we have to defer to the doctor's judgement. The ref would determine whether it was a legal punch or a foul and who loses or if they go to the cards.
 
I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about Garcias heart. He was pissed off. But the doctor still should not have stopped the fight for a broken nose - not unless he believes a broken nose is generally a reason to stop a fight and I certainly don't think it is.
You can't say broken nose like it's turning on or off a light switch. It all depends on the severity of the injury and we have to rely on the doctor to determine that.
 
Fair enough. I guess the point where we differ is that I think the doctor should make that judgement himself. If a guy told the doctor he didn't want to continue because he thought a cut was too bad, I wouldn't expect the doctor to go along with it unless he was going to stop the fight anyway. The doctor is the one qualified to make the decision.

That said, I just had the chance to go back and look at it and it looks like it took two doctors to decide that it was too bad to continue, but it looks like they did it pretty independently. I seem to remember Garcia's corner protesting more but I misremembered. Garcia didn't look particularly motivated but he wasn't arguing with them or really saying much at all.

Now if they had tried to stop the fight but Garcia protested and said he wanted to go on, I'd hope they'd still just stop the fight. You don't let a fighter go on when he's cut bad, either.

That's kind of what makes it a weird stoppage; when was the last time a doctor stopped a fight because a guy got punched in the nose really hard? I feel like we'd all be incredibly critical of a doctor if that happened. Imagine if Mikey was winning the fight, got hit in the nose really hard, wanted to go back out and finish but the doctor decided the broken nose was too bad and stops it. The same broken nose he had there. I don't think the consensus would be that "the doctor did the right thing."
That's basically what happened to Corrales with the cut lip. We all shrugged and said WTF...
 
I don't remember the Garcia/Salido ending but Rory had more than a broken nose, he was messed up badly. I remember him saying that his vision went all white and he couldn't see anything. Then there is this gif which pretty much sums everything up.

If Robbie had jumped in and caught Rory with his head and caused that damage the fight would have been stopped as well. Seano doesn't accept that evidence though. It has to be from a foul, that breaks the nose, the doc stops it and the injured fighter wins on the cards. Narrows it down quite a bit. :D

I do agree that fighters should have no influence in ref or doctor decisions or in being able to use open scoring to decide when they can safely coast to the end of a fight.
 
Again, this is nothing like the ending of Garcia/Salido. Not the same thing at all. You're just picking fights where guys got their noses broke. The ref didn't stop the Lawler fight for a broken nose.
Ok but can you at least admit that a broken nose can be a valid reason for stopping a fight? Whether it's the ref, doctor or fighter himself that stops it?
 
Back
Top