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So Anderson Silva chose not to continue?
Mikey Garcia vs Lomachenko
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Was that headbutt ruled accidental? It was clearly intentional and Salido should have been disqualified. There is nothing more shitty than a guy who is being outclassed and responds by fouling with the intent to cause injury.
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I believe it was not called at all until after the round ended, which is weird but it was unintentional by default as the ref didn't call it when it happened. Intentional foul is usually an automatic and immediate point deduction.
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It did blow my mind when it happened, yes. Absurd reason to stop a fight.
Irrelevant to the point I was making.
Like the Abraham/Miranda fight?
Not true at all. Victor Ortiz lost to Lopez for quitting with a broken jaw too.
Never said he couldn't box. This discussion is not about his skill level at all.
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Did he win? Did the fight go to the cards?
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Very relevent to objective reality. One was as a consequence of legal in ring actions one was not. You may not appreciate the difference, but there is one none the less.
If you're saying the physician knew the jaw was broken and allowed the fight to continue, he should never be able to officiate a fight again IMO.
Victor quit, the physician stopped the Garcia fight. One is a loss, the other is victory via foul. Again, a big difference but you can pretend they're the same situation if you wish.
You wanted to cast aspersions on Mikey's heart saying he wasn't exactly Gatti. My reply is "No shit, nor should that be what he's aiming for".
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Except thats not the point I was making. I'm still waiting for other examples of doctors stoppages for broken noses. You won't find any because its not a fight ending injury. A broken nose does not render a fighter unfit to continue.
And yet there are dozens of examples of fights going on with one fighter having an obvious broken jaw. *shrug* I already pointed out the Arthur Abraham example.
Right, Ortiz quit. He didn't have an injury that forces a doctor to step in and stop the fight. Neither did Garcia. Garcia quit too, he just somehow got the doc to go along with it.
What Garcia got away with there set a dangerous precedent. Same with Hopkins quitting against Dawson. It sets a precedent for a fighter to decide the fight should go to the cards (or in the Hopkins example, have a TKO loss overturned to a NC) anytime things get rough.
Right, I question his heart, not his skill. I thought that seemed fairly obvious.
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I choose NOT to follow the red herring, thanks.
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Take part in the conversation or don't. I couldn't give less fucks.
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Should a fighter be allowed to continue with a bad injury, be it a cut or broken bone, if he wishes to continue?
Obviously the doctor often forces a fight to end when there is a bad cut, but it is more rare that a doctor stops a fight due to a broken bone. Which is odd in a way, because both can lead to further injury. A cut prevents the fighter from seeing, but a nose can prevent a fighter from breathing, and a badly broken jaw means you cannot bite down on your mouth guard which is also very dangerous.
Obviously the doctor often forces a fight to end when there is a bad cut, but it is more rare that a doctor stops a fight due to a broken bone. Which is odd in a way, because both can lead to further injury. A cut prevents the fighter from seeing, but a nose can prevent a fighter from breathing, and a badly broken jaw means you cannot bite down on your mouth guard which is also very dangerous.
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Accidental foul is why it went to the cards.
My problem is that I don't believe a broken nose is an injury that renders a fighter unable to continue.
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Ahh yeah that's where I thought the lines were split in the discussion.
To me it comes down to this: would the doctor have stopped the fight and given Garcia a loss if that same damage came from a punch? I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. And if it's not bad enough to stop the fight, it's not bad enough to stop the fight - period. And I don't think any of us want to start seeing fights stopped because a guy got popped good and broke his nose.
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"I've always felt that saying a fighter has heart is a nice way of saying they get beat up"
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I don't think Garcia should have had the option of having the fight stopped based on the broken nose, but him electing to go that route when it was presented to him doesn't particularly worry me with regards to his heart.
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If you are dominating a fight, and your opponent decides to get dangerous with his fouling, the smart move is to end the fight as soon as possible if the opportunity presents itself. If they asked Garcia if he was okay, and he said no, then he made the smart move. You cannot allow your opponent to cheat in a way that endangers your health just because you're beating his ass.
The first headbutt broke his nose, maybe the next one breaks his orbital bone. Maybe he gets permanent eye damage, from a guy who is so far behind on the cards that he resorts to cheating. Fuck all that.
Mikey Garcia is a guy who has attended brain research conferences. He is very aware of the dangers he faces as a boxer, and I doubt he's going to allow himself to be seriously injured by some outclassed brawler who just wants to draw some blood with a few headbutts before he inevitably loses the fight.
The first headbutt broke his nose, maybe the next one breaks his orbital bone. Maybe he gets permanent eye damage, from a guy who is so far behind on the cards that he resorts to cheating. Fuck all that.
Mikey Garcia is a guy who has attended brain research conferences. He is very aware of the dangers he faces as a boxer, and I doubt he's going to allow himself to be seriously injured by some outclassed brawler who just wants to draw some blood with a few headbutts before he inevitably loses the fight.
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I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about Garcias heart. He was pissed off. But the doctor still should not have stopped the fight for a broken nose - not unless he believes a broken nose is generally a reason to stop a fight and I certainly don't think it is.
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Garcia may have told him he couldn't breath or something. I'd like to hear the audio from that interaction.
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If Salido hit him with a punch and broke his nose, would you be okay with the doctor stopping the fight and giving Mikey a loss? Because I wouldn't. If it's bad enough to stop the fight, then a broken nose is always bad enough. If not, and the doctor only stopped it because Garcia said he was hurt, then he's only stopping the fight because of a complaining fighter and not because he believes that a broken nose is grounds to stop a fight at all - regardless of the cause.
