Mighty Mouse "Cyborg vs Ronda would be Garbage at 135"

Whatever weight you think he two ought to fight at, I think this is a weak argument. The UFC bantamweight title is the most prestigious WMMA title in the world. The Invicta 145 title is faaaaar less prestigious.
 
Like I have always said, he is an honest guy and smart on top of being a great fighter and people would enjoy following him. It is a shame only when they want to borrow a quote from him is the only time some give a shit about him. And he is right, the fight wouldn't be the same. What he is also right about is that is Cyborg's fault.

But even if it wasn't, fans want to see lots of fights. The fights they get to see are fighters at the same weight. Especially if it involves a champ. And a champ isn't moving out of her weight-class to fight someone who can't make weight because of past cheating. It is silly to expect her to. But this will probably start the whole thing going again...and again.
 
Agreed

I sincerely doubt 5% of the casuals know what Invicta is
 

He is a very smart man. He sees what so many others fail to see. 100% agree. Thats why ronda and the ufc want her at 135. I mean they have had plenty of catchweight fights before. They won't risk her image or money making ability at catchweight though. They have nothing to gain if ronda loses and everything to gain if she wins. Thats why they need it at a drained 135. Its not legit or the right thing to do but its in their and rondas best interest. The right thing to do is catch weight considering they are both champs and both dominant respecting both opponents but its not about respect here and never is with the ufc.
 
Just as Ronda is a champ at 135 so is Cyborg champ at 145. So why should Cyborg come down? Fight at catch weight and fight!

She doesn't have to. But she needs to choose to if she wants to fight the the UFC 135 pound champ. That's how things work. They aren't even in the same organization. Cyborg would be considered the #1 contender in the UFC. And if Renan Barao wanted to fight DJ for the belt, do you think anyone would be asking DJ why he doesn't let Barao miss weight because it would be a great fight?
 
You guys bashing Ronda are dumb. If Cyborg got off the drugs she would lose a bunch of weight and would be able to make 135 easily. Look how she looked in her first fight. She was tiny. Its obvious she is still juicing.

Why should Ronda go to 145 to fight her? Shes the champion of 135. She has said multiple times that her career wont be complete without beating Cyborg. Cyborg needs to get off the juice and make 135 if she wants the belt so bad. Its ridiculous people think Ronda should cater to a cheater and go out of her weight class to fight a cheater. She isn't even in the UFC for fucks sake.

This is all on Cyborg. If she wants the fight bad enough she will have it. But theres no way she will get off the juice. Its a crutch for her, and shes not gonna fight Ronda without it. Shes too mentally weak to compete without an advantage over her competition.
 
Whatever weight you think he two ought to fight at, I think this is a weak argument. The UFC bantamweight title is the most prestigious WMMA title in the world. The Invicta 145 title is faaaaar less prestigious.

The title is irrelevant in this matchup, it's just about legacy for both of them.
 
MM throwing a lot of shade in the past couple of days, he finally decided he wants to put some butts in seats?

He is the same guy he always has been. Some people only have noticed if the topic is controversial. You won't find a time when he isn't brutally honest. He spoke against the Reebox deal too. I enjoy his fights anyway but I am at least as much a fan of his because of how he does things. The guy is the consummate professional but he is not a 'company man'.

He even talked about how he loved fighting in Japan because of how much more knowledgeable fans are there and how after his fight, despite beating their fighter, how so many fans were coming up and giving him props for certain moves fans in the U.S. would miss, in part because they would be too busy shitting on the lower weight classes. He isn't trying to get fans. He just is honest. It would be nice if being honest resulted in fans instead of needing to mimic a WWE promo but is what it is.
 
Not nearly to the same degree though. If they don't fight, in 5 years from now most people following MMA won't even know who Cyborg is. Everybody will remember Ronda regardless of whether wmma goes on to flourish or falls apart. The money, the fame, the opportunity...it is all desperately needed by Cyborg more than Ronda.

And there will never be more that needs to be said as far as not doing a superfight if the only reason one fighter isn't in the same weight class already is from past steroid use. Of course Ronda will press her advantage. Many fans shit on her, it is the casuals who love her across the board. So the 'for the fans' some use argument is a weak argument, they are just hoping against hope something will come together where there is a chance she will lose. She probably isn't worried about those fans! And all fighters are in it for the money. When you make enough of it you can afford to be more picky or do what you feel is in your best interest. Ronda will have great numbers from now until when she retires either way. A couple extra bucks in her pocket won't matter to her. And if you were her, would you do Cyborg any favors given the relationship?

I'd love to see the fight at any weight. I think she destroys Cyborg at any weight. But I get why she wouldn't go to Cyborg or even compromise with her. If you want the champ you gotta go to them. And if people think the UFC women's division is weak, holy shit they need to look at who is at Invicta. So it isn't exactly the same level of champ-to-champ either. Which is why it really won't affect Ronda's legacy to most as most casuals will just assume Cyborg was some champ is some tripple A league somewhere and write it off as nothing to begin with.
 
Would you allow Overeem to juice up for his fight with JDS? Because unless your answer is yes, you are a hypocrite

Fail. A better analogy would be would you allow Overeem to fight JDS knowing he caught juicing in the past. Guess who JDS is fighting next?
 
The title is irrelevant in this matchup, it's just about legacy for both of them.

I agree and its crazy how so many people miss this. The is the chance to be crowned the UNDISPUTED best woman's MMA fighter ever. If Rhonda thinks she can beat Cyborg there is no excuse to pass up this fight.
 
The title is irrelevant in this matchup, it's just about legacy for both of them.

I tend to agree. I was pointing out that Cyborg gains no additional leverage from being 145 champ.
 
It all comes down to who makes the first step to a catch weight...If Ronda asks for a 140 and cyborg declines or the otherway around, then we know who's scurred...
 
since you made a big reply, heres mine.

I asked if she was your sister as IRONY, you understand that right? because you really seemed worried about Cyborg strenght hurting poor Ronda when you made your comments. What about it? You see huge guys losing to weaker ones, and? Thats skill. Well, if Cyborg tags Ronda and drops her, indeed she would take a severe punishment. And? They are fighters. Heal for some time and get back.

im against drugs in MMA. Totally. However we cant be naive to the point of believing fighters didnt do it. TRT or not, MANY did, many still do, but now its a different reality, tests, rules, enforcement (how accurate these are, I dont know, but times are different).

But as I said before: test the fighters. plain and simple. Not on peds? Great, fight on. On peds? Cancel the fight, fine the guy, ban him whatever. But the fact that someone has been caught juicing before is not such a big deal. Present is what matters.

to conclude, generally speaking Im not a big fan of interweight challenges, weight difference can really make a difference, thats why the different weights exist in the first place. Im just tired of this bs between Ronda and Cyborg. People cant stop talking about this fight and I would prefer a cw superfight happened, no titles involved. If Ronda is scared, or see no gains out of it to compensate the risk of being smashed, Ronda should stop bsing around saying she could beat men and stuff. Its pathethic.

The first three sentences, lol. Hardly such a thing as actual "big" replies, on Sherdog, mine wasn't one of them; I apologize, I didn't know it took you effort to read, I am used to higher conversation. :)

Seriously though, as someone who also isn't a fan of modern fighters fighting outside of their weight class; I don't see how you let trivial things get in the way of that. Sure it'd be nice if they fought at catch weight instead, but that doesn't take away that it'd be nice if they fought, period. Cyborg used to be able to make 115 looking at them-- not as old as her nuthuggers would make it seem-- pics. Her whole body, including her face, and: on a possibly unrelated note, pigment, all changed. She then needed to use drugs to get to her "natural" weight class. Let's stop pretending her history doesn't matter, and not help a cycler.

If she's tested and fails, then wtf did we make the fight for? To see Ronda either destory or become unable to destroy a juicer? Nah. We want to see the best, and naturalized Cyborg, against the best- safe to say for now: natural, Ronda.

It doesn't make sense for UFC to put on this fight at 145, nor does it help anybody for it to happen at 140. 135 won't lead to a depleted Cyborg, she is supposed to make 135 before she fights Ronda to prove she can make the weight, and it also gives her time to adjust back to being the size of a normal and actual woman.


We seem to be on the same page, just interpret the situations differently. I could go for Ronda not dignifying the stupid "What if?" questions with a response too, I just am not affected by what she chooses to do. None of it is pathetic. I'm a Mixed Martial Artist, yes, it is necessary to have a Champion's Mindset, at that level, even in WMMA, it's part of the game. You don't tell a WW that he'll never be GSP, don't tell her Megumi Fuji laughs at her competition or w/e WMMA fans that don't like her would tell her (not that I'm assuming you're a WMMA fan, like you did towards me, lol). Now if she pulled some Jones shit, I'd actually be annoyed, for like 30 seconds at least...maybe just 15.
 
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He's only stating the obvious. It's why Ronda, her team and her fans are adamant about the fight taking place there.
 
Whatever weight you think he two ought to fight at, I think this is a weak argument. The UFC bantamweight title is the most prestigious WMMA title in the world. The Invicta 145 title is faaaaar less prestigious.

That's not the point. He's saying that Cyborg would be drained to the point where the fight wouldn't really mean much. Cyborg is clearly a bigger fighter than Rousey and she really doesn't have much business at 135 (I mean, the past 4 years of her discussing going down and then flip flopping, saying it will permanently damage her, rinse and repeat suggests to me that it's simply not going to happen). I don't think fighters ever really have an obligation to move up in weight so if Ronda didn't, I wouldn't necessarily find fault with it. The only thing I'd say is that I apply such logic to men's MMA or boxing, both sports that are far more developed with far deeper talent pools and if Ronda is so far ahead of her opposition, I don't really think it's unrealistic to expect such a fight, but whatever.
 
That's not the point. He's saying that Cyborg would be drained to the point where the fight wouldn't really mean much. Cyborg is clearly a bigger fighter than Rousey and she really doesn't have much business at 135 (I mean, the past 4 years of her discussing going down and then flip flopping, saying it will permanently damage her, rinse and repeat suggests to me that it's simply not going to happen). I don't think fighters ever really have an obligation to move up in weight so if Ronda didn't, I wouldn't necessarily find fault with it. The only thing I'd say is that I apply such logic to men's MMA or boxing, both sports that are far more developed with far deeper talent pools and if Ronda is so far ahead of her opposition, I don't really think it's unrealistic to expect such a fight, but whatever.

Yep. I understand Johnson's argument. I was responding to a different argument that I took to be suggesting that Ronda doesn't have more leverage in the negotiations because Cyborg is also a champion.

I think a fight at 140 is more than fair, but I expect the UFC to stick to their guns and insist on it being 135.
 
Fail. A better analogy would be would you allow Overeem to fight JDS knowing he caught juicing in the past. Guess who JDS is fighting next?

A better (highly hypothetical) analogy would be if you allowed JDS fight Overeem at 270lb catchweight... for one fight only after which Overeem goes back to Strikeforce... while JDS is the undisputed champion and biggest star in your company

Would you allow that? Would you allow that knowing that Overeem could very well make the weight limit but didn't even bother to try?
 
She got busted 4 years ago

And? She asked to be released from UFC the day after they announced out of competition drug testing

Just because you got busted a couple of years ago, doesn't automatically mean that you have been clean and honest ever since. Have we learned nothing from Barnett and Sonnen.. or Vitor?

Look, I'm not trying to accuse her of current steroid use, but there is good evidence to suggest that she has been using most of her career.. and the fact that she still looks the way she does and somehow managed to get 15lbs heavier than she was while using makes me skeptical that she ever got clean to begin with
 
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