Social Michigan cop who had Confederate/KKK memorabilia in home is fired

[VivaRevolution]

Are you okay with the government while acting as an employer restricting what political views a person can hold? What if Trump fired all the democrats working for the federal government? Would you be okay with that?

So I want clarity for your position here.

Are you saying a known racist should be allowed to be a cop?

Or are you saying that having these things doesn't prove he is a racist?

 

[glenwo2]

This is disgusting. This guy has a right to own whatever historical or political memorabilia he wants in his home. I hope the courts vindicate this man's free speech rights because there is something really wrong when the government gets to decide the political views of its employees.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan...FY-M2q7FT3AhhBQmPJLhRTIEoZRtqHISGYG3-VjW3QkEc

This officer will wind up getting his job back.

Having collectible memorabilia hanging on your walls is a form of protected expression under the Constitution.

What he chooses to collect is not his employer's business.

The fact that his employer is a government agency means that their rights as an employer take a backseat to his Constitutional rights.

The offensive nature of his collection notwithstanding, the department, as an agency of the government, has no lawful authority to curtail or sanction his exercise of said rights.

The officer could also go after the man who put this information out on Facebook, civilly, as the guy said on TV that he wants the officer to lose his job.

That's defamation of character with actual malice.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I would imagine his KKK stuff is a dead giveaway.

You would assume.

I'm not willing to do that.

 

[7437]

If it came into his work at all I'd be fine with him being fired. But this is in his own house. Remember the government is the biggest employer in this country. If they are allowed to determine what political views are allowed well that is not a good thing. I personally would not think having an ISIS flag alone should be grounds to terminate a government employee as well.

Government has a dual role as an employer and the State. It has way to much power to be allowed to decide outside of the scope of employment what views its employees may hold because now it is going from its role as an employer to that of the state.

Well he had an application. Would someone who applied to ISIS be an issue for you?

 

[andnowweknow]

Meanwhile, Ralph Northam is still governor

...or should I say "coon man."

Honestly, anyone who's read your posts knows you're cool with Ralph and the KKK cop.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Hahahaha, @Lord Coke I have to assume you are familiar with the constitutional history of loyalty oaths and purging public employees whose political beliefs supposedly pose a clear and present danger to government interests.

Being a member of the Communist Party is still a fireable offense for public employees, and you think that it's unacceptable that officers of the law who deal with racial minorities and are expected and constitutionally required to treat them equally can be fired for being white supremacists? There are few government interests higher than law and order and the ability for persons to respect and trust the good faith enforcement of the law. Having KKK cops is a flagrant affront to that interest.

Do you agree with that though?

Here is where I draw the line.

If a Communist was in a position of authority directly impacting his ability to perform the job, because he was a Communist, I would support it being banned.

I don't think people who collect history memorabilia of Communists or racists, should be assumed to support either.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Well he had an application. Would someone who applied to ISIS be an issue for you?

His application, or a application from the past, aka history memorabilia?

 

[Ruprecht]

Wait, his application to the KKK, or a old application to the KKK?

I wouldn't care if a guy who clearly studies and collects religious history had ISIS stuff hung on his wall.

Looks like an old one, and blank.

 

[Lord Coke]

Hahahaha, @Lord Coke I have to assume you are familiar with the constitutional history of loyalty oaths and purging public employees whose political beliefs supposedly pose a clear and present danger to government interests.

Being a member of the Communist Party is still a fireable offense for public employees, and you think that it's unacceptable that officers of the law who deal with racial minorities and are expected and constitutionally required to treat them equally can be fired for being white supremacists? There are few government interests higher than law and order and the ability for persons to respect and trust the good faith enforcement of the law. Having KKK cops is a flagrant affront to that interest.

And I disagree with all of that. I can give the government a pass on the communist party to a very small degree. That is because a devout adherent in Marx believes that the communist state can only be brought about by a violent overthrow of the capitalist state. Through what I believe to be a misreading of Marx's Das Kapital the American Communist party at least at one point believed this had to occur through a proactive revolt. In light of that advocacy I can see how there is a compelling state interest in banning membership. I'd note that my personal reading is that capitalism would give way to communist and class strife was just a inherent part of that.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

You would assume.

I'm not willing to do that.

I said imagine you said assume. Nice try tho.

 

[7437]

His application, or a application from the past, aka history memorabilia?

Why are you just making things up that arent part of the actual OP about a history collection? That is wholesale just from you.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Why are you just making things up that arent part of the actual OP about a history collection? That is wholesale just from you.

Where is the evidence that it isn't?

Are you familiar with innocent until proven guilty?

 

[Islam Imamate]

If it came into his work at all I'd be fine with him being fired. But this is in his own house. Remember the government is the biggest employer in this country. If they are allowed to determine what political views are allowed well that is not a good thing. I personally would not think having an ISIS flag alone should be grounds to terminate a government employee as well.

Government has a dual role as an employer and the State. It has way to much power to be allowed to decide outside of the scope of employment what views its employees may hold because now it is going from its role as an employer to that of the state.

I think you have a very strong point.

However, think of what this suggests to citizens. Don't you think some citizens are going to find it hard to trust this cop? You're arguing that he has a right to be a cop despite being a blatant racist and honestly I won't argue that point since you're a lawyer and you'd know better than I. But at the same time then, can't you see how this vindicates those who talk of racism in policing? This is just one cop but then again elsewhere its more systemic. You can't keep racist cops on the force and expect minorities to trust the police. To be fair we should examine it on a per officer and per PD basis and not tar all cops on the basis of a non-representative sample. But to put it lightly, its a non-negligible problem at this point.

 

[7437]

Where is the evidence that it isn't?

Are you familiar with innocent until proven guilty?

You know that's a criminal trial thing right? You sure as fuck arent innocent until proven guilty anywhere else.

 

[Trotsky]

Do you agree with that though?

Here is where I draw the line.

If a Communist was in a position of authority directly impacted his ability to perform the job, because he was a Communist, I would support it being banned.

I don't think people who collect history memorabilia of Communists or racists, should be assumed to support either.

If you have ties and affinities for white supremacy, then no, you should not be protected from being fired from a police officer position in which you directly serve citizens and apply the law to them. Should you be protected from firing in a bureaucratic role that doesn't deal with public service or effectuation of equal protection? Yes, I believe you should. The red scare laws are another degree removed, since they are based on the blanket assumption that all communists seek to violently overthrow the government.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I think you have a very strong point.

However, think of what this suggests to citizens. Don't you think some citizens are going to find it hard to trust this cop? You're arguing that he has a right to be a cop despite being a blatant racist and honestly I won't argue that point since you're a lawyer and you'd know better than I. But at the same time then, can't you see how this vindicates those who talk of racism in policing? This is just one cop but then again elsewhere its more systemic. You can't keep racist cops on the force and expect minorities to trust the police. To be fair we should examine it on a per officer and per PD basis and not tar all cops on the basis of a non-representative sample. But to put it lightly, its a non-negligible problem at this point.

Where is this evidence that he is clearly a racist?

If anyone can show me this, I agree he should be fired. That to me is clearly something a cop shouldn't be. A cop also probably shouldn't be a anarchist btw.

 

[tramendous]

Maybe he just liked the music.

You gotta admit...it's catchy.

"William was a gay deceiver"

hahahahhahaha

 

[VivaRevolution]

If you have ties and affinities for white supremacy, then no, you should not be protected from being fired from a police officer position in which you directly serve citizens and apply the law to them. Should you be protected from firing in a bureaucratic role that doesn't deal with public service or effectuation of equal protection? Yes, I believe you should. The red scare laws are another degree removed, since they are based on the blanket assumption that all communists seek to violently overthrow the government.

I think what makes this story compelling is that this seems very, very, very, very thin reasoning to assume this guy is a racist, based on what is in this article.

 

[VivaRevolution]

You know that's a criminal trial thing right? You sure as fuck arent innocent until proven guilty anywhere else.

Under a union contract you sure as shit are.

 

[tramendous]

Where is this evidence that he is clearly a racist?

If anyone can show me this, I agree he should be fired. That to me is clearly something a cop shouldn't be. A cop also probably shouldn't be a anarchist btw.

ya he just framed a kkk application and had confederate flags for shits and giggles.

 

[7437]

Where is this evidence that he is clearly a racist?

If anyone can show me this, I agree he should be fired. That to me is clearly something a cop shouldn't be. A cop also probably shouldn't be a anarchist btw.

They said the inquiry will be released to the public next week. All we know is they found a bunch of sketchy Confederate stuff, an inquiry was done, he was fired, and the police are willing to release the details.

I see no reason to give benefit of the doubt until then.