Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by JRT6, May 18, 2008.
I am explosive because of what Coach Dos has shown me personally and through his book.
I was considering ordering Rippetoe's Starting Strength and Practical Programming. That seems to be highly recommended on this board. Good choices?
Yes - buy it now.
Done and done. Should be better than reading all the bar review stuff I have to do.
negotiable instruments - ftw
Rip's books are excellent. You will be happy with the purchase.
I personally own Starting Strength and it is a great book. The attention to detail he gives incredible and brings to light just how you are doing wrong.
Once I finish a few cycles of the 5x5 in the fall...I plan to pick up Practical Programming for when I design my own routine.
I read through both books and they ok for beginners to intermediate lifters, but they are very basic and leave out a huge amount of important information, especially when it comes to the principles that need to be used for MMA strength & conditioning. There is nothing really new or original in either of them and personally I think Remedios is far too focused on the olympic lifts.
Olympic lifts are great for sports requiring vertical acceleration like volleyball, basketball, and high jump but they are limited use on other sports and realistically it requires an experienced weightlifting coach to teach the proper technique. Yes they do a great job of CNS development, but so do a variety of other lifts that are more applicable and easier to teach and use. There is a tremendous amount of research on the transfer of training and this principle in russian and eastern block literature.
I would also advise to do very little volume of overhead pressing work if you value your shoulders at all. It is well known in the orthopedic world that in contact sports like football and MMA that overhead pressing is very hard on the shoulder joint capsule and can very easily lead to shoulder impingement problems down the road.
For those interested in more advanced methods and concepts, I'd highly suggest reading Verkhoshansky's latest book "Special Strength Training: A Practical Manual for Coaches." I'd also suggest "The Science and Practice of Strength Training" by Zatsiorsky as well. These two books combined will teach you ten times more about the art and science of developing effective programs than any other two books out there.
Maybe you'er talking about a different Dos book because the one I reviewed on has one olympic type lift, if you can consider hang cleans a difficult olympic lift, per workout. His workouts are filled with squating, benching, deadlifting, zercher good mornings, you know all the standard olympic stuff.
And as far as sport specifity goes there are several simplified olympic style lifts that teach explosiveness better than anything else.
The negativity directed at Remedios and Rippetoe was inaccurate, unarticulated and unjustified.
What are the differences between vertical acceleration and horizontal acceleration in terms of lower body biomechanics (ignoring the fine points of sprinting and jumping technique) and with respect to exercises that address specificity of the type of acceleration?
Do you have any publications on this? In terms of experience, my impingement symptoms went away after dropping benching and focusing on overhead movements.
I'll let you respond to Tak's more specific questions about the rest of what you said.
Your basic argument is really a strawman. To attack Rip and Remedios for writing a book for beginners and intermediates and lacking info for MMA is laughable. Rip's book is entitled "A Simple and Practical Guide to Coaching Beginners." Also, do you think that Remedios is trying to help anyone other than strength training noobs? Also, to describe "Starting Strength" as basic and lacking info for "MMA" is to miss his entire point. It is a coaching manual on the squat, DL, press, bench and powerclean. Although his book is "basic," is quite detailed on the proper mechanics of each of the barbell lifts.
The other problem with your argument is that your misunderstand your audience. Most people seeking advice here are beginners to intermediate lifters. They need to develop a strength base first before they develop a more specific program. When and if they become an elite athlete, then they will need to find a S&C coach.
Think about what you said this way - imagine if Matt Kroc came here and wanted a program info. Suggesting Starting Strength to a world class powerlifter would seem rather silly. Why? He is elite. Now what if a noob asked Kroc for advice on how to get strong. What would he probably do? Tell the kid to squat, press and DL, and work his ass off. Its probably why guys like Jim Wendler recommend Rips books to beginner whether they are training for a sport or just trying to get strong.
I wasn't trying to bash the books or say they have no value, just that they are targeted for beginner to intermediate lifters and if more advanced lifters on here want more detailed and more advanced information they should take a look at the books I suggested.
There is nothing wrong with basic information and yes a lot of people do need that level, but there are also a million books out there with the same info and I'm sure there are plenty of people on this board who are interested in more advanced training methods than just a basic squat, deadlift, clean, etc. type lifting program.
I have read the books and was just making my own comments based on my own personal opinion on them, and offering suggestions for books I doubt many people have read but would benefit from tremendously. Feel free to read the books I suggested and you'll see the difference.
As far as the difference in lower body biomechanics between horizontal and vertical acceleration there is a huge difference because the center of gravity is being accelerated vertical in olympic lifts and jumping and horizontally in all forward movement. Forward acceleration and vertical acceleration is a fundamentally different motor pattern with different neuromuscular activation patterns and timing. If this were not the case, olympic level high jumpers would be some of the fastest athletes in the world and sprinters would all have a tremendous high jump.
To improve vertical jumping and vertical acceleration the olympic lifts are valuable, but to improve horizontal acceleration there needs to be a much greater focus on horizontal movements and horizontal plyometrics. Depth jumps and shock method training also provide a much greater CNS stimulus than olympic lifts. Look through Verkhoshansky's research and books for more on this.
As far as the shoulder impingement literature, I'm sure there is some but I'm speaking from my own personal experience coaching in the NFL and speaking with Buddy Morris and Tom Myslinski while they were coaching the Browns who did extensive research on the subject. Talk to an experienced orthopedic surgeon who works with athletes they will tell you the same thing. Most likely your symptoms went away because you stopped benching, not because you started focusing on overhead pressing.
Are you James Smith?
EDIT: Nevermind, read your thread in Conditioning forum.
I understand your point that those books are not gospel. They are a good
you guys are so cool.
Go eat a baconator.
how much do you weigh now?
These discussions are good, better than reading some bullshit like "hai guys Im a wrestlar!! what should I do for conditining??"
218 this morning and feeling light
Will you be able to squat 500+ by the end of the year?
Separate names with a comma.