Meanwhile in UFC 228: an amazing warrior breaks all the records of his division

[AimedWithV]

The guy who didn't know who Miller is has over 4000 posts in less than a year. Too many people with very little knowledge clog up discussion by posting constantly.

LOL well TBF all the McGregor related topics are usually huge, so it's easy to gain posts if you're his fan

 

[scrubadiver]

Jim Miller is the shit, I can't even imagine training and fighting at that level with Lyme's, for a few years to boot.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

One of my favorite fighters.

 

[xupacabra]

Never liked him.. But hat down to his accomplishments.

 

[AimedWithV]

Never liked him.. But hat down to his accomplishments.

What's not to like in him? Both inside and outside the cage?

 

[xupacabra]

What's not to like in him? Both inside and outside the cage?

I would love to give you some answer but I can't... Not that I was actively disliking the guy, it was just passive uninterest..

 

[Pain4Pain]

Hoping he ties or beats Bisping's record of most wins in the UFC. He doesn't deserve to have a record like that after holding up the MW division for nearly two years.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

He's not a champion level fighter but he's been in exactly zero boring fights. UFC is more entertainment than sport, and Miller is always entertaining, more so than most champs.

of course he's going to be more exciting than the champions. he's fighting lesser competition.

 

[AimedWithV]

of course he's going to be more exciting than the champions. he's fighting lesser competition.

BS. Real BS, especially coming from someone who sits on sherdog for 15 years.

Miller fought very tough competition, he was top 10 for a long time and top 5 for a certain period.
A lot of those who became champions/#1 contenders fought him, and neither would've called a fight with him a walk in the park.

Plus the excitement of fight does not depend on competition level.

 

[John 8 44 -8 47]

I felt terrible for him in the Dan Hooker fight. Glad to see him get a win. Worst skid of his career at 35 must have been difficult to get through.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

BS. Real BS, especially coming from someone who sits on sherdog for 15 years.

Miller fought very tough competition, he was top 10 for a long time and top 5 for a certain period.
A lot of those who became champions/#1 contenders fought him, and neither would've called a fight with him a walk in the park.

Plus the excitement of fight does not depend on competition level.

i'm pretty sure you're the one sitting on sherdog all day.

i've been here 15 years and you already have more posts in 3.

so tell me, what champions fought him? Pettis is the only guy and Pettis beat him. EVERYONE ELSE, were NEVER champions.

how many guys did he fight that fought for a title? Pettis, Cowboy, and Diego, and SURPRISE SURPRISE he lost to all of them.

excitement sure as hell does depend on competition level, how exciting was Woodley when he was KOing the Josh Koschecks and the Jay Hieron's of the world? pretty damn exciting right?

how exciting was he when he fought the Demian Maias and the Wonderboys? not very right?

how about Darren Till? he was pretty exciting when he was wrecking the nobodies and LWs in the WW division, not very exciting once he fought Wonderboy and Woodley.

sure, you can have high level fights that are exciting but they're much more rare than having exciting fights at lower competition levels.

SO what does this all mean? either Jim Miller is the outlier of all outliers like you're suggesting OR, he doesn't face the top competition.

i think i thoroughly proved he doesn't face the top competition, but you can go ahead and keep believing he's right there with the creme of the crop.

btw, his prime was in 2010 fyi.

 

[AimedWithV]

SO what does this all mean?

That means absolutely NOTHING, my friend.
Hand picked examples NEVER EVER prove the theory. You wanna prove the theory? Prove it a priori, not empirically.
You wanna do statistics of FOTNs with breakdown of fighters' rankings by that time? Be my guest. Until then, there is absolutely NO RELATION.

And yes, I know that Miller lost to champions and contenders. That's exactly why I called him a gatekeeper. Gatekeeper of gold.
But he fought them, he fought top 10 and top 5 competition. BTW he fought Bendo, too.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

That means absolutely NOTHING, my friend.
Hand picked examples NEVER EVER prove the theory. You wanna prove the theory? Prove it a priori, not empirically.
You wanna do statistics of FOTNs with breakdown of fighters' rankings by that time? Be my guest. Until then, there is absolutely NO RELATION.

And yes, I know that Miller lost to champions and contenders. That's exactly why I called him a gatekeeper. Gatekeeper of gold.
But he fought them, he fought top 10 and top 5 competition. BTW he fought Bendo, too.

it's not my job to convince you. that's your own problem.

this shit is common sense, not science, generally speaking, people take LESS CHANCES when the STAKES ARE HIGHER.

generally speaking, when you go UP IN COMPETITION, the guys have BETTER DEFENSES and are BETTER FIGHTERS, hence it's HARDER to finish them and land attacks.

i mean, it's not rocket science, it's not "let me go through the hours of investigation to prove my point to some guy on the internet" you can just USE YOUR OWN BRAIN and realize NOT LOSING is more important to a lot of these guys than being exciting is.

that's not the case at the lower end of the spectrum in MMA. the lower end guys are trying to show up and show out because they're getting paid peanuts and want to show why they're worth the promotion and the extra cash.

it's the same deal in college football. it's more exciting than the NFL because they're less skilled and more willing to take risks.

 

[WinZip]

of course he's going to be more exciting than the champions. he's fighting lesser competition.

So then why aren't more fighters as exciting as Miller? Maybe because Miller has a more exciting style of fighting?

I didn't think Jim Miller had haters, but I guess I was wrong

 

[AimedWithV]

it's not my job to convince you. that's your own problem.

this shit is common sense, not science, generally speaking, people take LESS CHANCES when the STAKES ARE HIGHER.

generally speaking, when you go UP IN COMPETITION, the guys have BETTER DEFENSES and are BETTER FIGHTERS, hence it's HARDER to finish them and land attacks.

i mean, it's not rocket science, it's not "let me go through the hours of investigation to prove my point to some guy on the internet" you can just USE YOUR OWN BRAIN and realize NOT LOSING is more important to a lot of these guys than being exciting is.

that's not the case at the lower end of the spectrum in MMA. the lower end guys are trying to show up and show out because they're getting paid peanuts and want to show why they're worth the promotion and the extra cash.

it's the same deal in college football. it's more exciting than the NFL because they're less skilled and more willing to take risks.

According to this cool story bro, you would've received the following picture:
The higher the rankings, the more boring fights that lead to decisions. Low level leagues should be filled with FOTYs and all finishes.
Of course, that does not happen, and you see a lot of title fights where fighters throw everything on the line.

Now, why doesn't it happen really ? After all, you "USE YOUR BRAIN", and elite fighters fight for "NOT LOSING"?
There are a couple of main reasons for that:
1. Excitement of MMA fight usually comes with mastery. Wild brawls come on any level, but actual great technique and skills comes on higher levels.
That's why some fights that we really appreciate can not happen on lower levels.
2. Styles make fights - and well rounded fighters (like Jim Miller) make fights exciting, especially when they meet other well-rounded fighters (and 155 is rich on them, and has always been)
3. "Don't leave it to the hands of the judges" - ever heard of that? When you're fighting not to lose, you have a huge probability to actually lose. The safest way to win is to finish your opponent - and while you're attempting to do that, you have exciting fight.
4. Fighters are not calculating machines, they're not rocket scientists and they don't have all the time in the world to make the best strategy ever. After all, this is a fight, and this is why you get very exciting title fights. They also take unnecesary risks - yes, on the highest level possible.

I'm really surprised that while you're "using your brain" you do not take it all into consideration. It's like you really don't follow MMA or understand it.
Apparently I'm not just more active forum member, my understanding of MMA comes along.

Conclusion: Jim Miller fought elite competition, and fought them like his life is on the line, and it shows.

 

[AimedWithV]

I didn't think Jim Miller had haters, but I guess I was wrong

He's not Jim Miller hater. He just used him as an excuse to defecate in the forum.
There are couple of "MMA fans" here that like to devalue fighters and their accomplishments. I don't understand this thinking really.
I doubt @Pancake Sprawl actually has favorite fighters.

 

[Aluminati]

He’s like Tibau.

Has longevity and a good win here and there but never quite goes anywhere.

Sounds like life.

 

[Aluminati]

According to this cool story bro, you would've received the following picture:
The higher the rankings, the more boring fights that lead to decisions. Low level leagues should be filled with FOTYs and all finishes.
Of course, that does not happen, and you see a lot of title fights where fighters throw everything on the line.

Now, why doesn't it happen really ? After all, you "USE YOUR BRAIN", and elite fighters fight for "NOT LOSING"?
There are a couple of main reasons for that:
1. Excitement of MMA fight usually comes with mastery. Wild brawls come on any level, but actual great technique and skills comes on higher levels.
That's why some fights that we really appreciate can not happen on lower levels.
2. Styles make fights - and well rounded fighters (like Jim Miller) make fights exciting, especially when they meet other well-rounded fighters (and 155 is rich on them, and has always been)
3. "Don't leave it to the hands of the judges" - ever heard of that? When you're fighting not to lose, you have a huge probability to actually lose. The safest way to win is to finish your opponent - and while you're attempting to do that, you have exciting fight.
4. Fighters are not calculating machines, they're not rocket scientists and they don't have all the time in the world to make the best strategy ever. After all, this is a fight, and this is why you get very exciting title fights. They also take unnecesary risks - yes, on the highest level possible.

I'm really surprised that while you're "using your brain" you do not take it all into consideration. It's like you really don't follow MMA or understand it.
Apparently I'm not just more active forum member, my understanding of MMA comes along.

Conclusion: Jim Miller fought elite competition, and fought them like his life is on the line, and it shows.

Jim Miller is the fucking man, but I don't think he was way off. He spent a lot of his career in the lower end of the rankings, and a lot of the elite have his name as a win on their resume. He's had the unfortunate combination of adversity in his life and signing contracts against risi g stars.

In most divisions, the potential for mismatched skill sets and ability is much greater in both the minor leagues and at the bottom of the rankings than in the elite. You have rising Stars, declining vets, raw athletes that are neophytes, and you mix them all together and see what happens. Sometimes you get a Yair vs BJ Penn.

 

[AimedWithV]

Jim Miller is the fucking man, but I don't think he was way off. He spent a lot of his career in the lower end of the rankings, and a lot of the elite have his name as a win on their resume. He's had the unfortunate combination of adversity in his life and signing contracts against risi g stars.

In most divisions, the potential for mismatched skill sets and ability is much greater in both the minor leagues and at the bottom of the rankings than in the elite. You have rising Stars, declining vets, raw athletes that are neophytes, and you mix them all together and see what happens. Sometimes you get a Yair vs BJ Penn.

Lower end? I'd say he's top 30-40 now, but he's been on top 15 from 2010 to 2014 , something like that.
And yes, he had quite a "bad luck" of fights with contenders, that's EXACTLY what makes him an actual gatekeeper - in a good meaning of a word.

 

[VERBAL-FEDOR]

That's pretty incredible. Dana should give him 50k.

Dana gives him 5k to show + 5k won bonus.....keep em hungry.