Meanwhile in Sweden

[Bork]

Your point about jail also not being a fool-proof way to impede secondary offences is why I don't consider your arguments irrational. The only thing I can suggest is that at least while in prison, the perp can't rape the public at large, and I'm not sure what studies suggest, but I think fear of prison (or returning) have a greater effect than simply community service.

These are all just opinions, I have no real idea what I'm talking about.

I have no idea if fear of prison impacts original crime. I highly doubt it is big as it seems poverty''s high correlation with crime would at the very least neutralize it. I do, however, know that recidivism is astoudingly high in the US.

Anyway, decided to do some digging.

1. http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/pages/welcome.aspx
2. http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch5_recidivism.html

I think the biggest question is does a system like sweden's, assuming this punishment is typical, reduce recidivism. Here's a quick list of reasons touted off for CMS. It's not the best site in the world, but it's the best I could do on short notice. All in all, these more or less align with what I learned. I imagine if you really want to, you'll research a bit more. It's UK based and I find the probation point to align with the experience of the person I knew.

http://rethinking.org.uk/facts/rethink/procons.html

Okay, I actually decided to search a bit more for probation because having lived with someone who went through it, I know it's not a cakewalk. Anyway, I haven't gone through it, but the highlights for the "Probation Review Implementation" are interesting at least. "One-year recidivism for probation completers declined to 20% in 2012, from 53% prior to implementation." and "Fewer youth entered the juvenile justice system, resulting in fewer youth on probation and a reduction in average probation caseload from 33 youth to probation officer in 2009 to 20 youth to probation officer by 2013." Not to mention the economic benefits as most ppl should by now know that a prison system is expensive.

So maybe probation acts as an effective deterrent. That makes me think that CMS would be just as effective for some of the more sever crimes. It sucks too. But ultimately, as I alluded to above, I think most are socioeconomic in nature as I've discussed in the past. Maybe in probation, CMS, and therapy for some.

http://www.modelsforchange.net/publications/516

Did some more digging. Also, didn't put much effort into looking through them as I'm about done for the day already. The first saw no negative effect on recidivism and a possible positive effect. The second saw a positive effect of CMS and a negative effect of prison. And the third also saw a positive effect. The big limitation of these studies is offense level, outside of one, unfortunately; one of the reasons that make a comparative study among countries interesting. Honestly, most of the data appears to be no to some positive effect meaning that it's at least more cost effective while not being harmful.

1. http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2332&context=facpubs
2. http://crg.aic.gov.au/reports/33-96-7.pdf
3. http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._to_Traditional_Fines_for_Low-Level_Offenders

Would be very difficult. Practically impossible when you consider different jurisdictions continually redefine offences and how they are categorized.

Probably be better to look at the root causes of rape but thats a more sociological, psychological thing.

But recidivism rates are one aspect. Yes we need to reduce recidivism and take into account protecting the public but long term you need to look into the root causes of offences as then you are reducing the problem.

If rape wasn't a crime a society would have 0 rapes, if you get what I mean.

Again you run into a problem of comparative analysis in how rape is defined and how it is reported.

Its a broad problem not only in how particular societies define rape, but in the reporting of it and how the judicial system deals with it but that could be said of any crime.

I think I'm with you on the hard labour. Punishment and rehabilitation need not be separated, in fact they could be one and the same imo.

For sure. I imagine someone will come up with a crime index. There's already a section in the quality of life index for perceived threat. Sweden does well on pretty much all indices especially quality of life like most nordic countries. Would be interesting to see.

I don't understand either. It has me seriously questioning what exactly people think that rape does to women. Do they think they take a few weeks to heal physically, and poof, they are all better? Fuck man...

My issue has nothing to do with not thinking the crime is serious. i stated that in my very first post. However, recidivism is still an issue which can cause even more negative problems on society. Also, if you knew anything of my post history here, you'd know I'd be the first person to defend the negative effects on mental health caused by sex offense. Also, don't try to act as if you know my life and/or experiences when dealing with this type of issue.

The cucks in here defending community service for rape are delusional. Another motive instead of being delusional cucks is that they know the mass importation of 3rd world barbarians will lead to a increase in petty crimes to violent rapes. This will put great strain on their socialist governments and social welfare. A way to allow this system to continue a little longer is community service. No need to feed, house or build new prisons. Selfish or delusional.

This doesn't appear to be true at all. Sweden has a falling victimization rate that also falls in line with falling hospital assault data. It also has an overly exapansive reporting system that includes things like leering and cyber harassment as well as if one huy rapes one girl 5 times that's 5 reports instead of 1 like in other countries. You clearly missed the wiki link and red highlights I posted and would rather cling to your racist/xenophobic beliefs.

I haven't been on in a while, isn't Bork the one that post the blacks are discriminated against by the cops post in any police shooting thread.

After reading his shit in this thread of course he would take up for the criminals and blame police. He's the type to watch his girl get raped and then blame her for her white privilege.

Don't be angry because you can't understand socioecomics and get destroyed. Ferguson report, seattle report, nypd lawsuit, aclu and voting rights suppression, justice.govs's extensive list of discrimination against blacks, cicil rights only 50 yrs ago, blah, etc., blah, etc.

Also, no, I'm not in every police thread talking about discrimination against blacks. Wouldn't even have to bring it up most times if it wasn't for ignorant fools espousing racial epithets and not understanding basic statistics and probability let alone socioecomics.

Interestingly, they supposedly already revised their sentencing for violent crime in 2010.

Fascinating. I'm exhausted, but as far as I can tell, they are becoming more punitive with recidivist crimes (though no data is mentioned in the article). Seems to be the opposite of what is going on in CJ debates in the US with restorative justice. It's also interesting because when you google 'sweden recidivism' positive stuff comes that would make you think they don't need reformation; though, admittedly, I haven't made the effort to really read them.

According to their national data, they have a lower recidivism rate by about 20% compared to the US at least. They also have a dropping victimization rate like most all developing countries as well. I really wonder how the recidivism breaks down by offense. Maybe someone less exhausted will figure it out and post.

https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/rape-and-sex-offences.html

IMO, it still looks like restorative justice is the way to go in regards to recidivism.

Anyway, I'm done for the weekend.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...F-8#safe=off&q=recidivism+restorative+justice

 

[ObsoleteSoul]

I don't care about your post history, or life story. If you honestly had a horrible rape in your family, and support this sentence, that says all there is to say. I feel bad if it happens to someone in your family.

 

[bad seed]

Oh, we are posting the porn we jerk off to on here? Cool. Hey, dude, just because you are into black guys schlongs does not make you gay and even if you are your life style is your business. Oh, were one of those cuck sheds yours? If so, sweet.
Some people may think you are a total and complete pathetic loser for being into ethnic schlongs, but I don't think that at all. Really.

I was beginning to think I lost my touch with no one biting my bait. Thanks for proving my point.

#GottenTo

 

[Shokushu Goukan]

I was beginning to think I lost my touch with no one biting my bait. Thanks for proving my point.

#GottenTo

Yes, that we often reply to topics with our true feelings whether we know it or not. I am guessing that is your point. We are obviously not to think this is the only bar in the world that is a spot for interracial hookups, but the question is why do you feel the need to post it and
WHY ARE YOU SO FAMILIAR WITH IT? You do not appear to be a white woman or a black guy, so what does that leave? Cuck or gay for black dudes.
You think about swedish women and post pics of black guys.
The lady (you) doth protest too much, one would say in your case.

I think of swedish girls and post this:

 

[Metusalemi]

I don't understand either. It has me seriously questioning what exactly people think that rape does to women. Do they think they take a few weeks to heal physically, and poof, they are all better? Fuck man...

Not only to a woman, but to a 12 year old child.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

The world needs to wake up. These Euro countries are in a world of hurt currently.

We maybe all created equal, but we aren't raised equal.

 

[Metusalemi]

Spoiler

Why did you post these pictures and didn't leave any comment?

What is your point?

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

According to wiki, this guy is a fear monger and the ppl who buy into his message are dolts. Also, there seems to be a lack of understanding of the swedish criminal system and reporting. But, hey, who knows? Conspiracies and whatnot.

For all the rational ppl not easily bought with youtube videos, below is the wiki, and you can form your own opinions. There's no point in me quoting anything because it extensively debunks the idea that sweden's crime is out of control from start to finish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

Also, I read through the Ida story and the dude got community service and probation due to being a minor when it happened and not having any other allegations or priors; ultimately, they deemed him a productive citizen one year later. Not that I don't think his crime was serious, but personally, I believe community service to be a more economically efficient and effective than prison. That said, I do think one month may have been too short. I do wonder what the pedo law is in sweden considering they were only 5 years apart. I think, here, that's the cut off, at least for some states. And plenty of white guys on the site as well. Lemme make a youtube video about it...

http://www.stoppa-pedofilerna.se/gu...mhallstjanst-for-valdtakt-mot-12-arig-flicka/

Really? So all the court documents and quotes he listed and described are incorrect?

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

I thought we were bashing Muslims today, whats all this about black people?

No, immigrants. One example in the video was of a man named Muhammed.

 

[Cayenne]

Community service for rape? Holy fucking shit... the SJWs are fucking insane. If someone rapes my 11 year old daughter, I will KILL the motherfucker.

Apparently taking matters into your own hands is the only way to get real justice in Sweden. The father should just straight up hire a hitman to kill and/or torture the somali who raped his daughter.

 

[bad seed]

Yes, that we often reply to topics with our true feelings whether we know it or not. I am guessing that is your point. We are obviously not to think this is the only bar in the world that is a spot for interracial hookups, but the question is why do you feel the need to post it and
WHY ARE YOU SO FAMILIAR WITH IT? You do not appear to be a white woman or a black guy, so what does that leave? Cuck or gay for black dudes.
You think about swedish women and post pics of black guys.
The lady (you) doth protest too much, one would say in your case.

I think of swedish girls and post this:

Why did you post these pictures and didn't leave any comment?

What is your point?

because at the heart of all this isnt some patriotic urge to preserve "Swedish culture", or defending women from sexual violence. Its anger that FOREIGNERS are having sex with "your" women. It goes hand in hand, whether its rape or consensual interracial sex.

 

[Rod1]

 

[Metusalemi]

because at the heart of all this isnt some patriotic urge to preserve "Swedish culture", or defending women from sexual violence. Its anger that FOREIGNERS are having sex with "your" women. It goes hand in hand, whether its rape or consensual interracial sex.

And you base this on what?

And you do realize you replied to a post about Finland with pics from one specific club in Finland.

 

[clmetal]

because at the heart of all this isnt some patriotic urge to preserve "Swedish culture", or defending women from sexual violence. Its anger that FOREIGNERS are having sex with "your" women. It goes hand in hand, whether its rape or consensual interracial sex.

Rape, consensual sex, what's the difference. Let's ignore the rape part and it makes it easier to attack people questioning why Sweden needs people like this horny kid who is now doing community service.

 

[bad seed]

Rape, consensual sex, what's the difference. Let's ignore the rape part and it makes it easier to attack people questioning why Sweden needs people like this horny kid who is now doing community service.

theyre using the specter of rape to paint consensual interracial sex with the same brush. Its all a threat to their perceived idea of what Sweden should be.

 

[IIIIIIII]

because at the heart of all this isnt some patriotic urge to preserve "Swedish culture", or defending women from sexual violence. Its anger that FOREIGNERS are having sex with "your" women. It goes hand in hand, whether its rape or consensual interracial sex.

no, it's really not. if these foreigners entered the scandinavian countries and made a concerted effort to assimilate and embrace the swedish culture, sexual intercourse wouldn't be a big deal. yeah, there would still be those who wouldn't approve of it. but most wouldn't mind. let's remember that many folks there stand up for these foreigners. and these people definitely wouldn't care about sex, if they're even defending them after all the crimes they commit.

the problem is that the foreigners don't assimilate, and swedes don't want the influence of foreigners to enter their culture. what did they expect when they allowed them to enter in the first place? who is going to be okay with moving to a country where they don't feel a part of it? both sides are to blame.

you either become a melting-pot country like the u.s., or you don't embrace the immigrants and their culture. or you deport them all. but i guess that last option is wishful-thinking at this point.

 

[IDL]

no, it's really not. if these foreigners entered the scandinavian countries and made a concerted effort to assimilate and embrace the swedish culture, sexual intercourse wouldn't be a big deal. yeah, there would still be those who wouldn't approve of it. but most wouldn't mind. let's remember that many folks there stand up for these foreigners. and these people definitely wouldn't care about sex, if they're even defending them after all the crimes they commit.

the problem is that the foreigners don't assimilate, and swedes don't want the influence of foreigners to enter their culture. what did they expect when they allowed them to enter in the first place? who is going to be okay with moving to a country where they don't feel a part of it? both sides are to blame.

you either becoming a melting-pot country like the u.s., or you embrace the immigrants and their culture. or you deport them all. but i guess that last option is wishful-thinking at this point.

The Swedish people didn't really have a say in it. The mass immigration protocols come from the wealthy that pull the strings there. They also control the media to help the political agenda along, as well as school curriculums used to condition the children to embrace it all.

The Swedes are just along for the ride, really. Most trying to make sense of the policies the best they can and accommodate, not realizing that those who control the power have their own agenda separate from the people.

An increased crime rate is just the 'birth pangs' of the new society being created. It is better for those in power to sweep that sort of thing under the rug as much as possible in order to prevent any resistance.

 

[clmetal]

theyre using the specter of rape to paint consensual interracial sex with the same brush. Its all a threat to their perceived idea of what Sweden should be.

I don't think so. People aren't starting threads about Chinese and Indian immigrants. If immigrants from MENA aren't good for the country, and if Swedish people don't want them, . . .

 

[bad seed]

The Swedish people didn't really have a say in it. The mass immigration protocols come from the wealthy that pull the strings there. They also control the media to help the political agenda along, as well as school curriculums used to condition the children to embrace it all.

The Swedes are just along for the ride, really. Most trying to make sense of the policies the best they can and accommodate, not realizing that those who control the power have their own agenda separate from the people.

An increased crime rate is just the 'birth pangs' of the new society being created. It is better for those in power to sweep that sort of thing under the rug as much as possible in order to prevent any resistance.

come on, you left out a crucial part of the narrative.

 

[IDL]

^ Well there are certainly organizations and activists paid to implement such agendas. Barbara takes her job very seriously!