McGregor's ground game in the Holloway fight...

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Stixx, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. Stixx

    Stixx Purple Belt

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    Just how good is Max Holloway actually on the ground? I never followed him or watched many of his fights, but Rogan was talking about him having a very good ground game and a great guard so what do you think we can say about Conor's ground game based on that fight?

    Since he was dominating the striking battle, it looked to me like he wanted to test himself by taking Holloway down several times, especially in the 3rd round, and he looked to be pretty decent working from the top. Training with Gunnar Nelson must surely be a benefit for him.

    I'm no grappling expert, but I'd love to hear some insight from people who are.
     
  2. Sakurabinette

    Sakurabinette Saku belt

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    He tore his ACL during that fight, so the takedowns in rd 3 were out of necessity.
    But yeah, from what I've heard his ground game is pretty solid.
     
  3. Stixx

    Stixx Purple Belt

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    Oh, I didn't know that. His takedowns looked rather effortless though. I know Max Holloway is not exactly elite, but he's a pretty good fighter.
     
  4. Reach4theSky

    Reach4theSky Playin' a riddim

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    His two loses have been by submission, so I'm guessing that's the part of his game he needs to work on the most.
     
  5. Bogeyman

    Bogeyman Electrical Cord Belt

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    Holloway also had a broken foot in that fight, so it's hard to gauge him too.
     
  6. Stixx

    Stixx Purple Belt

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    That was more than four years ago, though, so I guess he's fixed a lot of his holes.
     
  7. Dan155

    Dan155 Green Belt

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    I think his ground game is not very good. Certainly not at that time. Pretty sure he was a BJJ white belt during that fight. Louisiana purple belt Dustin Porier dominated him on the ground and subbed him (Louisiana is a very weak state for BJJ; one of those places where a Brazilian blue belt would probably sub most of their brown belts). Holloway is about as pure of a kickboxer as exists in the UFC right now, though he's young and constantly improving.

    Ps. I'm not a Holloway hater. I'm from Hawaii and he's one of my favorite fighters. That's just the reality of his grappling skills at the moment.
     
  8. Reach4theSky

    Reach4theSky Playin' a riddim

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    True, but on the flip side - those loses weren't against UFC level grapplers. We'll just have to see what happens when he's put on his back.
     
  9. Gametheory

    Gametheory Brown Belt

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    His grappling looked good against Holloway.
    Good technique in his takedowns and he secured them easily, unlike Bermudez who had trouble taking Holloway down.

    I remember solid passing and good control on top. Don't worry about McGregor's BJJ.
     
  10. Soul Rebel 2

    Soul Rebel 2 Black Belt

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    Remember that Max stuffed D-1 wrestler, Dennis Bermudez's takedowns.
     
  11. Dan155

    Dan155 Green Belt

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    As for McGregor, he looks pretty clueless on the ground. Unless he's been training BJJ several hours per day regularly since those submission losses, I imagine any high-octane grappler who gets his hands on him is going to have a field day. Can you imagine Frankie Edgar not mauling him from bell to bell like he did against a legitimate grappler in Swanson? Or Mendes not being able to take him down anytime he wants and establish whatever positions he wants? I can't.
     
  12. Reach4theSky

    Reach4theSky Playin' a riddim

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    Me neither. Imo Frankie or Mendes will expose him. The UFC has done a good job at making sure Conor avoids those two.
     
  13. surgeyou1

    surgeyou1 Welcome to the Machida Era...Part Deux

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    Lol what? Show me any point in he last three years he has looked "clueless" on the ground.
     
  14. No1 Stunna

    No1 Stunna Banned Banned

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    The bad news is in his early fights he looked pretty bad on the ground overall, had bad takedown defense, and was kneebarred early in the 1st round against a 125lb Lithuanian. I don't think you would ever see Weidman or Jones or any of the other elite of the elites have loses like this in their career.

    Maybe Conor had bad training in the begininning?

    The good news is that he has done a lot of training with Gunnar Nelson, one of the best grapplers out there, I am sure he is getting good training now. His head coach is a BJJ black belt. He is an elite athlete, tough mental game, he has shown killer striking, good takedown defense, and I don't recall but I think in the past few years he has shown some dominance on the ground even though he usually has been winning by 1st round KO.

    I think Edgar gives him some trouble but I am on the McGregor hype train, if he wins I would be happy to pay to see him fight Aldo, would be a war!
     
  15. Fumbles

    Fumbles Yellow Belt

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    I would wager that during his first 2 submission losses he had next to no ground experience. Clueless. However I just rewatched his fight against Dave Hill. For what its worth Dave Hill is predominately a submission grappler for his fighting style and has found a pretty decent record with 9 of his 12 wins coming by submission and his only submission loss coming Conor. I don't make any claims that Dave Hill is some sort of savant and I'm sure the grappling in Ireland is weaker than most areas. I only point out that Conor won via submission against a fighter who's main strength was BJJ and has found success primarily through it at the regional level.

    Now watching the fight itself, if I had to go purely by technique, I'd say Hill was still the better grappler. Not to discredit Conor's submission but the shots Hill took and the fact the Conor had a very noticeable size advantage definitely were factors. Conor handled himself well on the ground given his experience. Big things that stuck out in the fight was that his top control was lack luster as was his passing game, only really finding success after Hill started to tire out. However his defensive game seemed to have greatly improved since his second submission loss, along with his TDD, never really being in any real danger. I haven't seen Hill's other fights but it looks like he was playing around with the rubber guard only briefly before this fight, hanging out mostly in mission control and not being able to handle Conor passing it with relative ease, so take that for what you will.

    While still not a world beater by any means, Conor showed solid improvement in fundamentals. I'd say he was probably the equivalent of a blue belt. Being about 19 months since his last submission loss where I assumed he had little or no grappling experience it shows, at the very least, consistent training.

    I actually haven't seen the Holloway fight. I should get around to watching it beyond the highlights. Weird I've seen the Hill fight 3 times before seeing it once.

    I want to end with the fact that its on record claiming he's a brown belt under Kav, who's a black belt with lineage that leads back to the Machados. He also trains with Gunnar regularly, who's a world champion. While they are his coach and training partner, both take pride in their BJJ and I would trust their assessment of Conor's grappling ability.

    It'll be interesting to see how Conor handles someone some who could take him down consistently. I'd imagine he work less on his guard, abandoning most attempt at working anything from the bottom and prioritize getting back to his feet ASAP. The question leads more down to if his guard is just good enough to prevent from being passed before creating the space necessary to return to his feet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  16. bigconan

    bigconan Silver Belt

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    You aware that those losses were over a half decade ago. You don't think that someone would improve in that time...??????
     
  17. Kylewood95

    Kylewood95 Green Belt

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    I still think Max got robbed in that fight
     
  18. thetan

    thetan Green Belt

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    I'm not so sure.

    While i do think they would both get Conor down, I believe Conor's TDD, size, strength and cardio are good enough not to be completely manhandled, especially over 5 rounds.

    Conor's coach is a BJJ black belt and he goes against one of the best grapplers in the world everyday(who's also bigger) in Gunnar Nelson. He showed good TDD against Brandoa, who's a BJJ black belt.

    I'm not saying Conor has the ability to take down everyone and submit them at will. Like I said, Frankie and Mendes can get him down. I just believe he's too strong, too big and too conditioned , with good enough TDD, to get rag dolled like Cub did.
     
  19. Dan155

    Dan155 Green Belt

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    In not being able to submit pure kickboxer and (at the time) BJJ white belt Max Holloway, as I noted in an earlier post.
     
  20. thetan

    thetan Green Belt

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    Edit*

    Oops, replied to wrong topic.
     

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