mayweather vs prime julio cesar chavez
- Thread starter Moe Money
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Tough call.. The popular pick is obviously going to be Mayweather.. simply because we don't have an undefeated beast named JC Chavez causing people to piss blood reigning in this era.. and we do have a Mayweather Jr..
I think if they fought 10 times.. they would split them to be honest.. I think May would have to fight the perfect fight each fight.. I think he'd also have to increase his work rate.. but I think he's capable..
That said.. we have two pretty good examples of what would happen in this fight.. Castillo 1 and 2... Castillo had the advantage of being Chavez's lead sparring partner for years.. and took the knowledge he gained into that fight.. the question isn't whether or not Chavez could produce similar success vs. Mayweather..the question is how much better was Chavez than Castillo.. and I think he was quite a bit better and would present a greater challenge...
that said.. 5-5 because Mayweather is a scientist in there.. and has more heart and will than most people give him credit for..
I think if they fought 10 times.. they would split them to be honest.. I think May would have to fight the perfect fight each fight.. I think he'd also have to increase his work rate.. but I think he's capable..
That said.. we have two pretty good examples of what would happen in this fight.. Castillo 1 and 2... Castillo had the advantage of being Chavez's lead sparring partner for years.. and took the knowledge he gained into that fight.. the question isn't whether or not Chavez could produce similar success vs. Mayweather..the question is how much better was Chavez than Castillo.. and I think he was quite a bit better and would present a greater challenge...
that said.. 5-5 because Mayweather is a scientist in there.. and has more heart and will than most people give him credit for..
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You know, I watched Castillo 1 about a week ago since my memory had been a little foggy about the intricacies of the fight. I had it AT BEST a draw. I never really saw Castillo actually "take control" at any point of the fight and make me say, "wow, he's winning". Sure he did win a few rounds here and there but to me it looked mostly due to Floyd low workrate and the commitment to defense rather than taking it to him and moving around. I could only fathom Castillo winning a MAX 6 rounds, but no more than that. for the most part Floyd being the champ and not really being clearly beaten, I have no problem with his winning the 1st fight, other than the scoring. 7-5, 6-6 at the most. I didn't see a Castillo win. I think everyone's claims of a Castillo robbery is because of Floyd's dominance since and the last time anyone remembers him NOT dominating in boring fashion was against Castillo 1. But nah, Castillo didn't do enough to take the belt. He did enough to make it hard. He could've done more, but I guess it wasn't in his tank down the stretch.
With that being said......Chavez would've been what Castillo was missing. He would've been the Maidana with a set of twin turbos under the hood. JCC was a relentless, skillfull, pressure bruising fighter with a chin of steel and hands of granite and a will only Rocky Balboa could rival. It'd be interesting all the way through from round 1 till the end. This is a guy with 86 KO in his career!!!
HOWEVER: Seeing as JCC's most title wins and defenses came in the Jr.WW division it's safe to assume that would've been the prime of his career. And honestly, I believe Floyd at 140 was one of the most devastatingly skilled boxers in history at that weight. He had KO power, unmatched speed, timing, and sublime defense, PLUS the ability to move and avoid with his feet, (some of you clowns call that running). Which he would have to do once he realized by the 5-6th round that Chavez wasn't slowing....wasn't letting up...And was gonna be there in his face tagging his rib cage and shoulders, elbowing inside, pushing headhunting and snorting in his face like a Toro all night. The question is, do we think of the Floyd Mayweather of today who could EASILY cut to 140 and hydrate back up to 149-152, or the less experienced Floyd we saw when he was actually at 140 fighting against the likes of Gatti, Corley etc. etc.?
For this post I'm gonna consider the best of Floyd, (his career prime) today. Skill wise he's better than his 140 self and would beat the 140 Floyd all day every day. But I really dont think Chavez, was any better than he was at 140. IIRC, he went up to 47s, cause he could no longer reach 140.
Anyways, we've seen Chavez get outboxed by quick and slick guys before but pull it out against "lesser men" than him, (Meldrick Taylor is the most memorable fight). Chavez was outclassed in everyway, until the relentless pressure forcing Taylor to constantly be sticking and moving, boxing and turning, slipping and moving away, npt getting the ring cut off on him, thinking, etc. eventually wore the kid out and the Mexican legend mowed him down in the last round. One of the greatest fights ever imo, for you guys that haven't seen it.
I don't believe Floyd would fold...Meldrick Taylor is no Floyd Mayweather Jr.. Just as legendary is Chavez's chin and relentless SKILLED pressure; so is Floyd's legend established as one of the most conditioned boxers to ever live as well as a defensive boxing savant. I see a size and reach advantage in Floyd's favor, as well as the fact we've seen more than one boxer have some boxing success against Chavez, (they just m=never had the defense or the conditioning to deal with him for 12 rounds). I just honestly believe Floyd is a different beast when it comes to actually beating him when he figures out what he needs to do in the ring. He's taller, has more reach, is faster than anyone Chavez ever faced, slicker, stronger at 140 than what Chavez faced, better defense, and smarter and arguably the best skilled athlete.
I don't see Chavez winning. The match-up imo is similar to a Duran match-up with Floyd at 140. I could see a potential draw or two, but Floyd beats Chavez the majority out of 10 fights. 7-3, 8-2, 7-2-1 somewhere around there.
With that being said......Chavez would've been what Castillo was missing. He would've been the Maidana with a set of twin turbos under the hood. JCC was a relentless, skillfull, pressure bruising fighter with a chin of steel and hands of granite and a will only Rocky Balboa could rival. It'd be interesting all the way through from round 1 till the end. This is a guy with 86 KO in his career!!!
HOWEVER: Seeing as JCC's most title wins and defenses came in the Jr.WW division it's safe to assume that would've been the prime of his career. And honestly, I believe Floyd at 140 was one of the most devastatingly skilled boxers in history at that weight. He had KO power, unmatched speed, timing, and sublime defense, PLUS the ability to move and avoid with his feet, (some of you clowns call that running). Which he would have to do once he realized by the 5-6th round that Chavez wasn't slowing....wasn't letting up...And was gonna be there in his face tagging his rib cage and shoulders, elbowing inside, pushing headhunting and snorting in his face like a Toro all night. The question is, do we think of the Floyd Mayweather of today who could EASILY cut to 140 and hydrate back up to 149-152, or the less experienced Floyd we saw when he was actually at 140 fighting against the likes of Gatti, Corley etc. etc.?
For this post I'm gonna consider the best of Floyd, (his career prime) today. Skill wise he's better than his 140 self and would beat the 140 Floyd all day every day. But I really dont think Chavez, was any better than he was at 140. IIRC, he went up to 47s, cause he could no longer reach 140.
Anyways, we've seen Chavez get outboxed by quick and slick guys before but pull it out against "lesser men" than him, (Meldrick Taylor is the most memorable fight). Chavez was outclassed in everyway, until the relentless pressure forcing Taylor to constantly be sticking and moving, boxing and turning, slipping and moving away, npt getting the ring cut off on him, thinking, etc. eventually wore the kid out and the Mexican legend mowed him down in the last round. One of the greatest fights ever imo, for you guys that haven't seen it.
I don't believe Floyd would fold...Meldrick Taylor is no Floyd Mayweather Jr.. Just as legendary is Chavez's chin and relentless SKILLED pressure; so is Floyd's legend established as one of the most conditioned boxers to ever live as well as a defensive boxing savant. I see a size and reach advantage in Floyd's favor, as well as the fact we've seen more than one boxer have some boxing success against Chavez, (they just m=never had the defense or the conditioning to deal with him for 12 rounds). I just honestly believe Floyd is a different beast when it comes to actually beating him when he figures out what he needs to do in the ring. He's taller, has more reach, is faster than anyone Chavez ever faced, slicker, stronger at 140 than what Chavez faced, better defense, and smarter and arguably the best skilled athlete.
I don't see Chavez winning. The match-up imo is similar to a Duran match-up with Floyd at 140. I could see a potential draw or two, but Floyd beats Chavez the majority out of 10 fights. 7-3, 8-2, 7-2-1 somewhere around there.
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don't know why this got wastelanded..but Ill respond anyways..
I disagree with you about the 1st castillo fight..Mayweather def. showed grit, but Castillo dictated where and when the exchanges were taking place..and got the better of the majority of them..
that said... I wasn't necessarily commenting on what I thought the outcome was.. Castillo gave May problems in both fights even though he clearly lost one and I cited both.. The point was that if Castillo could provide that level of challenge.. Chavez would do more...
Taylor did something that Mayweather wouldn't do.. he exposed himself and committed to a high work rate to win rounds...
People forget that Chavez easily handled a really great boxer.. Hector Camacho.. beat him almost every round..and Camacho had some of the best footwork in the history of the business imo.. I also don't believe that Mayweather is faster than Camacho or Whitaker.. and definitely not Taylor.. comparable.. yes.. faster no.. he's smarter with his speed than all of those guys, but there is a reason that those guys threw 8-9 punch flurries and Mayweather sticks to his pot shots... because they had the speed to be reckless.. and they knew it...
btw.. I see Duran winning 8/10 fights with Mayweather.. he's Maidana with more speed, skill, power, defense, and grit... I don't see Mayweather being able to keep pace with a prime Duran...
I disagree with you about the 1st castillo fight..Mayweather def. showed grit, but Castillo dictated where and when the exchanges were taking place..and got the better of the majority of them..
that said... I wasn't necessarily commenting on what I thought the outcome was.. Castillo gave May problems in both fights even though he clearly lost one and I cited both.. The point was that if Castillo could provide that level of challenge.. Chavez would do more...
Taylor did something that Mayweather wouldn't do.. he exposed himself and committed to a high work rate to win rounds...
People forget that Chavez easily handled a really great boxer.. Hector Camacho.. beat him almost every round..and Camacho had some of the best footwork in the history of the business imo.. I also don't believe that Mayweather is faster than Camacho or Whitaker.. and definitely not Taylor.. comparable.. yes.. faster no.. he's smarter with his speed than all of those guys, but there is a reason that those guys threw 8-9 punch flurries and Mayweather sticks to his pot shots... because they had the speed to be reckless.. and they knew it...
btw.. I see Duran winning 8/10 fights with Mayweather.. he's Maidana with more speed, skill, power, defense, and grit... I don't see Mayweather being able to keep pace with a prime Duran...
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I guess the mods are tired of threads involving Floyd...
Mayweather has the timing Taylor and Camacho never had, makes their speed equal. 66 inch reach vs a 72 inch reach Floyd controls tempo from a distance all day against BOTH Chavez and Duran.
Mayweather has the timing Taylor and Camacho never had, makes their speed equal. 66 inch reach vs a 72 inch reach Floyd controls tempo from a distance all day against BOTH Chavez and Duran.
Thats what I said
