Maybe we got Marquez vs Cotto ...

I'm fairly confident that Cotto is a top 5 MW and the last time Marquez fought, nearly two years ago, he weighed in at 141 pounds (and he has never weighed in heavier than 144). Both fighters are past the point where their quality of opposition can be meaningfully criticized (both have proven a ton, have no obligations with belts, and are passed their best), but this seems like an unnecessarily dangerous fight for Marquez to take. If Marquez wants to take it, great, but it seems like a mismatch at this point.
 
I'm fairly confident that Cotto is a top 5 MW and the last time Marquez fought, nearly two years ago, he weighed in at 141 pounds (and he has never weighed in heavier than 144). Both fighters are past the point where their quality of opposition can be meaningfully criticized (both have proven a ton, have no obligations with belts, and are passed their best), but this seems like an unnecessarily dangerous fight for Marquez to take. If Marquez wants to take it, great, but it seems like a mismatch at this point.

Learn the game rookie.

Marquez is a legend and still has it. His iq and combos are elite. He could beat Cotto. Learn the Game rookies.

Whoo just bleed baby!
 
Cotto never fought at middleweight

159 pound, 158 pound, and 155 pound catchweight fights all fall under the category of middleweight fights. More than that, all three were, at the very least, top 10 talents in the MW division (Sergio was obviously the lineal champion, Geale was still top ten, and Canelo is now top 3 and lineal).
 
159 pound, 158 pound, and 155 pound catchweight fights all fall under the category of middleweight fights. More than that, all three were, at the very least, top 10 talents in the MW division (Sergio was obviously the lineal champion, Geale was still top ten, and Canelo is now top 3 and lineal).
Those are catch weight fights. The MW limit is 160. The limits you have said are those of catch weights. I was in the Barclays center when Cotto announced and told the crowd after the fight that he wasn't a middleweight so Cotto clearly agrees.
 
Those are catch weight fights. The MW limit is 160. The limits you have said are those of catch weights. I was in the Barclays center when Cotto announced and told the crowd after the fight that he wasn't a middleweight so Cotto clearly agrees.

I mean, the fights were contested at MW. That's a simple fact. Any weight limit set 155 to 160 is a MW fight. He was very small for the division, but he fought three fights at MW, and in all three of them the lineal MW title was at stake. I don't really see anywhere else for this conversation to go.
 
I mean, the fights were contested at MW. That's a simple fact. Any weight limit set 155 to 160 is a MW fight. He was very small for the division, but he fought three fights at MW, and in all three of them the lineal MW title was at stake. I don't really see anywhere else for this conversation to go.
A middleweight fight has a limit of 160. A catchweight fight at 155 has a catchweight limit of 155 as you are not allowed above the limit even though it is still MW. It's catchweight.

He said he wasn't a middleweight on TV. Do you not believe him? You are listing catch weight limits. Do you not believe catchweights exsist?
 
Those are catch weight fights. The MW limit is 160. The limits you have said are those of catch weights. I was in the Barclays center when Cotto announced and told the crowd after the fight that he wasn't a middleweight so Cotto clearly agrees.

There is no rule anywhere that says two guys can't agree to fight at a certain weight as long as it falls within the range of that weight class. The fact that its a catch weight doesn't mean its not middleweight.
 
There is no rule anywhere that says two guys can't agree to fight at a certain weight as long as it falls within the range of that weight class. The fact that its a catch weight doesn't mean its not middleweight.
Sure if the rules are totally perverted and weight classes mean nothing (which leads to titles meaning nothing). I have no problem with Cotto weighing in at 155 for a MW fight, I have a problem with him preventing his opponent from weighing in at MW in what is suppose to be a title fight.

Also Miguel Cotto told me, you and everyone else that he is not a middleweight. I will take his opinion. You are telling him he is a middleweight when he publicly said he is not.
 
A middleweight fight has a limit of 160. A catchweight fight at 155 has a catchweight limit of 155 as you are not allowed above the limit even though it is still MW. It's catchweight.

He said he wasn't a middleweight on TV. Do you not believe him? You are listing catch weight limits. Do you not believe catchweights exsist?

Is the question whether or not those fights occurred at MW? Because if that's the question, the only answer is yes. They completely fulfill the definition of MW fights, and that's why the lineal MW title was at stake in all three fights. Now, there is a completely separate question of whether or not catchweights are good for the sport. I think in some cases they are fine and serve a real purpose and in other cases they're completely unnecessary demands that serve only to stifle negotiations and muddy the waters of competition. I'm not commenting on whether any of this is good or bad. We're only dealing with the simple fact that Miguel Cotto fought at MW three times. Cotto saying he wasn't a MW on TV can be interpreted in many different ways. He'd be right if he meant that he wasn't a full sized MW. He'd be right in saying that it wasn't the most ideal weightclass for him. He wouldn't be right if he said that three of his fights weren't, by definition, MW fights, because, again, by definition, they were.
 
I'm of the opinion that championship fights should be fought at the maximum weight of the division. Catch weights are great for two guys at separate weights to meet, but the purist in me wants to see the lineal title contested at the highest weight.

A lot goes on in negotiations, and I don't believe being the bigger draw means you should be able to dictate such things. IMO ring size should be set standard by the state athletic commissions for each division - glove approval also at their discretion, superseding any agreement made between fighters. And the weight limit for any belt should be consistent & standard, enforced by the sanctioning bodies.

But wish in one hand, shit in another.
 
Is the question whether or not those fights occurred at MW? Because if that's the question, the only answer is yes. They completely fulfill the definition of MW fights, and that's why the lineal MW title was at stake in all three fights. Now, there is a completely separate question of whether or not catchweights are good for the sport. I think in some cases they are fine and serve a real purpose and in other cases they're completely unnecessary demands that serve only to stifle negotiations and muddy the waters of competition. I'm not commenting on whether any of this is good or bad. We're only dealing with the simple fact that Miguel Cotto fought at MW three times. Cotto saying he wasn't a MW on TV can be interpreted in many different ways. He'd be right if he meant that he wasn't a full sized MW. He'd be right in saying that it wasn't the most ideal weightclass for him. He wouldn't be right if he said that three of his fights weren't, by definition, MW fights, because, again, by definition, they were.
The dude said he wasn't a middleweight. Period. You are telling him he is full of shit so you can justify some fight or whatever but he said what he said. He isn't a middleweight and he told you that. Don't bother with the mental gymnastics to a direct statement. Take it up with Miguel Cotto If you think he's full of shit. "Maybe him saying he isn't a middleweight actually means.." We know what he meant. If someone tells you it's raining outside its raining.

He also specifically pointed out it was because of the weight of the fight.

Sanctioning a title fight means nothing given what gets sanctioned. A middleweight fight has a weight limit of 160. He fought in three catchweight bouts, as no fighter was allowed to come in t the middleweight limit. They came in at a catchweight limit. Now two fighters who have never fought at middleweight are fighting for the title of someone that never fought at middleweight.

They have catchweight fights for fights outside of established weight classes unless you think catchweights and weight divisions don't exsist. But then again, it's the same title that they stripped Sergio Martinez of to put on JCC jr because Sergio wasn't popular enough so what can we expect?
 
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I'm of the opinion that championship fights should be fought at the maximum weight of the division. Catch weights are great for two guys at separate weights to meet, but the purist in me wants to see the lineal title contested at the highest weight.

A lot goes on in negotiations, and I don't believe being the bigger draw means you should be able to dictate such things. IMO ring size should be set standard by the state athletic commissions for each division - glove approval also at their discretion, superseding any agreement made between fighters. And the weight limit for any belt should be consistent & standard, enforced by the sanctioning bodies.

But wish in one hand, shit in another.
This would be ideal, in my opinion.
 
The dude said he wasn't a middleweight. Period. You are telling him he is full of shit so you can justify some fight or whatever but he said what he said. He isn't a middleweight and he told you that. Don't bother with the mental gymnastics to a direct statement. Take it up with Miguel Cotto If you think he's full of shit. "Maybe him saying he isn't a middleweight actually means.." We know what he meant. If someone tells you it's raining outside its raining.

He also specifically pointed out it was because of the weight of the fight.

Sanctioning a title fight means nothing given what gets sanctioned. A middleweight fight has a weight limit of 160. He fought in three catchweight bouts, as no fighter was allowed to come in t the middleweight limit. They came in at a catchweight limit. Now two fighters who have never fought at middleweight are fighting for the title of someone that never fought at middleweight.

They have catchweight fights for fights outside of established weight classes unless you think catchweights and weight divisions don't exsist. But then again, it's the same title that they stripped Sergio Martinez of to put on JCC jr because Sergio wasn't popular enough so what can we expect?

Are we still discussing whether or not Cotto has fought in MW fights? Because he has and he's beaten the lineal MW champion, a top 10 rated MW (who was long rated in the top 5 and remains probably the 2nd or 3rd best win on the fighter most consider the best MW's resume), and a fighter who is rather clearly at least a top 4 talent at MW in those fights. Now, if the discussion is whether or not all these catchweights are good for the sport, that's another matter. Perhaps there should even be a discussion regarding whether or not lineal titles should be considered to be on the line if a catchweight is in place. As it stands now, it's determined that if the contracted weight limit falls in between 155-160, it is a MW fight, and the lineal MW championship is on the line. So, yeah, Miguel Cotto did fight at MW three times. That means he was a MW three times. That doesn't mean he was as big as the vast majority of MWs, that doesn't mean it is the best weight for him to fight at.

As far as I can tell, your confusion stems from the fact that you're talking about how things should be as opposed to how things actually are. That's fine, but realize the difference between the two things.
 
now is not the time for this bout to take place. imo, retirement is a sensible decision for marquez, cottos fought at a good level lately whereas marquez hasn't and its too late in the game for a bout between the two now, a few year a go yes, but not now
 
Boxingscene says we may get Cotto vs Provodnikov.
 
Landing a few punches on Tim Bradley sure has taken Provodnikov a looong way.
 
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