Max Holloway vs. Korean Zombie? How would that go?

[dildos]

Btw for this max vs KZ fight, I’d take max late-ish tko after round 3 or decision.

 

[drbolony]

Only one has answered my question btw... ADHD City...

I've responded to you

And:

I could seen the general consensus on why most folks would think Max would torch KZ on the feet, but I'm sure it's predicated upon I'm how he last performed against Brian Ortega.

But that was just one fight where he was off, having only 2 hours of sleep in a span of 48 hours. That well times elbow from Ortega didn't help with his performance shortly there after.

But c'mon, it's not like Brian decimated on Kz on the feet. He basically outpointed him with basic simple stick n moves with a lil flare. Minus that one off from KZ, and it's a completely different narrative.

I believe KZ has more thunder in his fists compared to Dustin and see a similar showing from Dustin vs. Max 2. It's going to be a bit more calculated with spurts of action.

I don't think KZ is going to get torched on the feet. Even though Max took his striking to a whole new level, no one ever dominated KZ on the feet, unless you think stick n move, stick and move for the majority of the fight is dominating. KZ wasn't fighting at his best that night.

So aside from what most would think, I see a competitive fight on the feet. But if KZ starts to land hard, it'll be more damaging compared to what Dustin did to Max. And if he slips, and falls down, it's going to be KZ's world...

Very intriguing match up...

This is a bunch of fanboy nonsense.

"Basically out pointed him with basic striking"

And you don't see an issue with this over five rounds? No adjustments to "basic technique with a little flare". It's so basic and yet he got outclassed for 5 rounds?

It's not just the performance against Brian, it's the culmination of film we've collected on KZ. He's an excellent well rounded fighter, but he's limited on the feet. Most of his game is landing single, powerful counter strikes. Good luck doing that against a fighter with one of the best understanding of ranges in MMA.

 

[Broad Blade]

Im not counting out KZ by the way. Nobody is impossible to KO and Max didn't face someone with the wrestling of KZ for a long time. That said I have no idea why he didn't use his wrestling against Yair who has no ground game. Its like he wanted to be in a war and it backfired

Yeah, you just never know what to expect with KZ. How about his accuracy and precision against Frankie when he had double vision? Or what about KZ vs. Garcia 2. He's quite the anomaly where we expect one thing from KZ but then does the opposite. Another example is Ortega, I mean the list goes on...

 

[Broad Blade]

I've responded to you

And:


This is a bunch of fanboy nonsense.

"Basically out pointed him with basic striking"

And you don't see an issue with this over five rounds? No adjustments to "basic technique with a little flare". It's so basic and yet he got outclassed for 5 rounds?

It's not just the performance against Brian, it's the culmination of film we've collected on KZ. He's an excellent well rounded fighter, but he's limited on the feet. Most of his game is landing single, powerful counter strikes. Good luck doing that against a fighter with one of the best understanding of ranges in MMA.

Well, his striking has improved. He was very technical and had great timing against KZ. My thing was that there wasn't a whole lot of it. I mean Ortega had a couple of real nice shots to the Zombies head, but the other time was basically a lot of stick and moves that were really technical. But I don't think we should just base that fight alone in how we see Holloway vs. KZ going. I believe MMA Math along and unforseen nuances swayed the public's opinion...

 

[Broad Blade]

Btw for this max vs KZ fight, I’d take max late-ish tko after round 3 or decision.

KZ's gotta granite chin and he's never been knocked or tkod by strikes. Elbows yes, fists, no... Plus Holloway is known for his volume, but not his power...

 

[drbolony]

Well, his striking has improved. He was very technical and had great timing against KZ. My thing was that there wasn't a whole lot of it. I mean Ortega had a couple of real nice shots to the Zombies head, but the other time was basically a lot of stick and moves that were really technical. But I don't think we should just base that fight alone in how we see Holloway vs. KZ going. I believe MMA Math along and unforseen nuances swayed the public's opinion...

What are the "unforeseen nuances"? Or is that just your way of saying "anything can happen", you just wanted to sound a little more enlightened? Look man you seem like a good dude who's trying to have a legit convo, but you're too blinded by your fanboyism to see past your biases. Can happen to anyone, definitely happened to me after Izzy vs Jan (sorry again @Chael_Sonnen).

That said, you're totally ignoring that Brian shut down KZ with as you admitted yourself, "basic technique". "Basically stick and move stuff that was technical", I mean listen to yourself you're down playing everything Brian did, pretty much saying "if he didn't fight that way, he would've gotten ko'd", you have no actual understanding of striking strategy or technique. You're infatuated with KO's and power like most. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try to rewrite reality like a Diaz brother to try and get your boy some clout.

 

[TommyBikes]

Wow that’s a fight right there. I think Max takes a UD with his hands and denying the takedowns. I like both so even tho it would be fireworks I don’t want it to happen.

 

[dildos]

KZ's gotta granite chin and he's never been knocked or tkod by strikes. Elbows yes, fists, no... Plus Holloway is known for his volume, but not his power...

tbh the ortega fight could have been called earlier, kz took alot of unwarranted damage that fight. he himself said he doesnt remember anything after that elbow and was just on autopilot mode after that.. that can not be good...

i agree kz still has a hell of a chin. its amazing. and he is still a top tier fighter, but max is next level with pressure and volume. its all accumulative. similar to how max put aldo away both times, it was just an onslaught non stop towards the finish.

im not saying kz is done, but i think he is much more susceptible to damage, and theres still a few fighters in the top 10 that could dish it out.

 

[Broad Blade]

What are the "unforeseen nuances"? Or is that just your way of saying "anything can happen", you just wanted to sound a little more enlightened? Look man you seem like a good dude who's trying to have a legit convo, but you're too blinded by your fanboyism to see past your biases. Can happen to anyone, definitely happened to me after Izzy vs Jan (sorry again @Chael_Sonnen).

That said, you're totally ignoring that Brian shut down KZ with as you admitted yourself, "basic technique". "Basically stick and move stuff that was technical", I mean listen to yourself you're down playing everything Brian did, pretty much saying "if he didn't fight that way, he would've gotten ko'd", you have no actual understanding of striking strategy or technique. You're infatuated with KO's and power like most. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try to rewrite reality like a Diaz brother to try and get your boy some clout.

I appreciate the honesty but I can't help but discount some factors that may have had a pivotal role in the Zombies performance. So what I mean by "unforseen nuances" was simply the deprivation of sleep that incurred. I'm quite certain Eddie Cha's translation was correct when he said the Zombie had only a total of 2 hours of sleep in the last two days leading up to the fight. That's what I meant by nuances and I truly believe that hindered his performance. Even though Brian did a good job, he didn't fight the best Korean Zombie that night imo...

 

[fortheo]

The only time I recall Holloway on his back was against Dennis Burmdez and Mcgregor... He's obviously evolved from that point, but KZ's wrestling and grappling seemed to be a level or two above Ige's ground game where Dan often has the upper hand...

Volk vs. max II ended with max on his back. I suspect KZ would have a sizeable advantage on the mat, but I just don't know if he could keep it there. He could use the takedown attempts to slow down Max's output, though.

 

[Broad Blade]

tbh the ortega fight could have been called earlier, kz took alot of unwarranted damage that fight. he himself said he doesnt remember anything after that elbow and was just on autopilot mode after that.. that can not be good...

i agree kz still has a hell of a chin. its amazing. and he is still a top tier fighter, but max is next level with pressure and volume. its all accumulative. similar to how max put aldo away both times, it was just an onslaught non stop towards the finish.

im not saying kz is done, but i think he is much more susceptible to damage, and theres still a few fighters in the top 10 that could dish it out.

There's no denying KZ is susceptible to damage. But you gotta one shot kill the Zombie to the head to take him out imo...

 

[fortheo]

barring the Ige fight Has KZ wrestled much since his 2017 return? I don't recall it, would have thought he'd have found some success against Yair who was coming in after getting wrestle fucked by Frankie Edgar, he was another very quick striker though.

Also closest thing I can find to a height comparison lol

Thats because the ufc thinks KZ is 5'7, despite clearly being closer to 5'10. He dwarfed 5'7 Aldo and Ige

 

[Broad Blade]

Volk vs. max II ended with max on his back. I suspect KZ would have a sizeable advantage on the mat, but I just don't know if he could keep it there. He could use the takedown attempts to slow down Max's output, though.

From what I observed, KZ has very heavy hips and has always dominated on the top when the fight got to the ground. Every single one of his fights way back from WEC to present day UFC, has shown exactly that. This is where the big intrigue is for me. KZ's ground game maybe considerably undervalued here imo...

 

[Jose Beehive]

Thats because the ufc thinks KZ is 5'7, despite clearly being closer to 5'10. He dwarfed 5'7 Aldo and Ige

The game that's taken from is even worse haha! They have KZ listed as 5 ft 5!!! and Max as 5 ft 9.

I don't understand why the heights are more often wrong than right, what's the point in this ridiculous misinformation? I've known how to use a tape measure to check my height since I was an infant .

 

[Broad Blade]

The game that's taken from is even worse haha! They have KZ listed as 5 ft 5!!! and Max as 5 ft 9.

I don't understand why the heights are more often wrong than right, what's the point in this ridiculous misinformation? I've known how to use a tape measure to check my height since I was an infant .

Yeah, they did KZ wrong in the game...

 

[Jose Beehive]

Yeah, they did KZ wrong in the game...

The game is fucked anyway, as soon as you go down to the mat both fighters become the same height anyway lol..

See 4:00 in


UFC get the heights wrong so often I refuse to believe them even if it's right... I wish they'd just remove the information if it's just going to be guessed.

 

[fortheo]

From what I observed, KZ has heavy hips and has always dominated on the top when the fight got to the ground. Every single one of his fights way back from WEC to present day UFC, has shown exactly that. This is where the big intrigue is for me. KZ's ground game maybe considerably undervalued here imo...

Plenty of guys have taken max down: Bermudez, Fili, Conor, Old Frankie, ortega, Volk.....

No one in recent years have had success holding him down. That said, KZ is a very good all around grappler, and the guy is a huge FW (he weighed 170lbs eight hours after weighing in at 145lbs...) he'd be very heavy on top.

If KZ could actually establish top position on Max, i think he'd have a pretty big advantage. I just don't know if he could. I do think that mixing in his grappling would be essential, though, even if he didn't get the takedowns. Historically Max's output has been lower against guys who kept him honest with the takedown threats, and that might help KZ find his chances on the feet to hurt max.

 

[Natural Order]

The Ortega fight should pretty much tell you everything you need to know. Not to say KZ doesn't have a chance, but it's pretty fucking small.

 

[Broad Blade]

The game is fucked anyway, as soon as you go down to the mat both fighters become the same height anyway lol..

See 4:00 in


UFC get the heights wrong so often I refuse to believe them even if it's right... I wish they'd just remove the information if it's just going to be guessed.

lol, Mighty Moose...

 

[fortheo]

The game that's taken from is even worse haha! They have KZ listed as 5 ft 5!!! and Max as 5 ft 9.

I don't understand why the heights are more often wrong than right, what's the point in this ridiculous misinformation? I've known how to use a tape measure to check my height since I was an infant .

That's actually so bad that it's funny. I'll allow it haha