Max Holloway is the perfect striker to beat Tony Ferguson

[Vincentsky]

This is going to be one of the best fights of all time IMO. Something on the level of Lawler vs McDonald, Hendo vs shogun, and Sanchez vs Melendez. Wowowowow

 

[nick jacoby]

I see Max boxing tony up for 5 rounds

 

[Pious Augustus]

Tony throws insane amounts of volume too. This is rounds 4 and 5, at Mexico City Elevation (where EVERYONE else was tiring--even in 3 round fights), and against another elite fighter and former champ.
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Tony doesn't just pressure, he pressures and throws serious volume AND his volume isn't boxing-centric like Max's is. Tony mixes in elbows, knees, kicks, etc.

Will Max gas? Probably not, I agree. Will be absorbing strikes? Hell yes, as he has against lesser strikers than Ferguson. And Max would also be at the biggest reach disadvantage of his career.

You brought up the MJ fight from 6 years ago but don't think Tony has faced any volume strikers? RDA is a more potent and busy striker than MJ. I'd imagine Tony fighting well over half the fight with MJ with a broken arm may have had something to do with him not pressuring as much. Even if you want to foolishly discount that though, again, he's had 11 fights since then. That fight is fairly irrelevant, even to the point you're trying to make.

And...you ignore the fact that Tony may well force some grappling exchanges where he has the advantage. He's done it before, no reason to think he wouldn't do it vs Max.

You then point out that Max being a great finisher is a key and predict a UD? Umm...what?

Max also has a greater output towards the later rounds (and the greatest output in UFC overall)
against Aldo, he landed:
R1: 25
R2: 42
R3: 114
against Ortega, he landed:
R1:40
R2:66
R3:50
R4:134

Tony:
.


Max
.

 

[Pious Augustus]

LMAO so when Tony beats guys bloody to the point they want out and then grabs a front headlock and snaps them down into a d'arce, that means he has no power?

He has 6 submission wins in the UFC, and in 5 of them (Rio, Trujillo Tibau, Barboza, Lando) he hurt guys standing badly before locking in the sub. Lee is the only one he didn't. You trying to use how many KO's/TKO's he has is a perfect example of blindly using fightfinder without actually having seen the fights and realizing what happened.

I've never wanted to involve the pillow fisted bs into the equation but since they want to use that bs against Max, I wanted to show them that the same "bs" argument can be used against Tony.

 

[fortheo]

It would look similar to the Ortega fight, but it would probably not be quite as one sided. Ortega and Tony both rely on unorthodox stand up techniques mixed with relentless pressure, which just won't cut it with Max. The only difference is that Tony has a bit more of a Takedown threat, but also like Ortega, he rarely goes for takedowns.

 

[fortheo]

the difference here is that MJ has a 76 inch reach to match Tony's
Max has a 69 inch reach.
MJ beat Tony in the outside boxing range.
Max will have to get inside, which he can with his exceptional footwork though.

I love this matchup. This is as high level as it gets.
We're going to see high level, non stop action, art at its finest, for 5 rounds ... if it even lasts that long.

Max is almost always on the wrong side of the reach equation. It's nothing new to him.

Also,@mkess101 I'm not sure where the rumor that max is primarily a boxer comes from— The guy is a kick boxer and he throws everything. You're going to try to hype up tony's kicking and elbow game while downgrading this guy down to "primarily a boxer" ?

 

[Sweater of AV]

 

[mkess101]

I've never wanted to involve the pillow fisted bs into the occasion but since they want to use that bs against Max, I wanted to show them that the same "bs" argument can be used against Tony.

Okay but there's a difference between winning a convincing UD but never hurting a guy despite landing a lot and with beating a guy up standing and deciding to finish by taking him straight down into a choke.

Personally I don't think Max is "pillow fisted", at least not at FW. I don't think he has big power either, he's probably middle of the pack. Tony doesn't have monster one shot power at LW either, but he likely hits a fair amount harder than Max. He also throws more strikes that have fight-ending capablities (like that spinning elbow that pretty much sealed the deal that Pettis no longer wanted to be in that cage).

 

[mkess101]

Max is almost always on the wrong side of the reach equation. It's nothing new to him.

Not such a significant one though.

 

[Pious Augustus]

I stated this before. But I am a die hard Max fan, being from Hawaii.
But Tony is a dangerous matchup for Blessed...and I don’t see Max winning. Both guys have great standup, I’d even give the edge to Max.
But the ground game is where I’d give the giant edge to Tony. Max is slick on the ground but Tony is a whole different level. And I could easily see Tony snatching up a sub against Max.
LW is a rough place for Holloway, and I sadly don’t see him doing as well as I’d hope.

More dangerous on the ground than Ortega?

 

[fortheo]

Not such a significant one though.

Miller has the same reach as Tony and was taller than tony, and as I've told you before, fili and do bronx also had long reaches— not as long as tony's, but long enough for one to conclude that being on the wrong end of the reach equation isn't a problem with Max. Also, please respond to my post above asking how you can talk up tony's kicking game, while slightly downgrading Max to "primarily a boxer"? have you watched his fights? I hope those gifs remind you that he's much more than primarily a boxer. He started as a kickboxer and it still shows.

 

[maxi diablo]

Only times Ferguson gets really tagged hard, is if he does not respect his opponent's power. He will respect Max I'm sure. Should be a really great fight.

 

[mkess101]

Miller has the same reach as Tony and was taller than tony, and as I've told you before, fili and do bronx also had long reaches— not as long as tony's, but long enough for one to conclude that being on the wrong end of the reach equation isn't a problem with Max. Also, please respond to my post above asking how you can talk up tony's kicking game, while slightly downgrading Max to "primarily a boxer"? have you watched his fights? I hope those gifs remind you that he's much more than primarily a boxer. He started as a kickboxer and it still shows.

Yeah Max throws some kicks. Less recently though, he's seemed to have really focused on his boxing. That's not really a knock, it's obviously working for him. If it's just kicks, Max still may throw more than Tony (or as many). Tony's striking is more varied as he mixes in more knees (you do show one gif of Max trying a flying knee to be fair) and especially elbows.

I guess I should have been more clear: None of the really accomplished strikers Max has fought (and he's fought a few very good ones) have had such a significant reach advantage on him. Cole Miller is...well yeah. Fili is okay, used his jab better vs Jury than I'd ever seen him before. I'd need to see how long he tried to fight vs Max. Do Bronx? Wasn't that fight like 1 minute and mostly on the mat where Oliveira had the weird throat injury? Even though he's a much lesser striker than Tony, that would have been an interesting one to look at because of Oliveira's grappling threat. Max having to close the distance on a much longer fighter who also can and will look to tie him up and force grappling exchanges.

 

[fortheo]

Yeah Max throws some kicks. Less recently though, he's seemed to have really focused on his boxing. That's not really a knock, it's obviously working for him. If it's just kicks, Max still may throw more than Tony (or as many). Tony's striking is more varied as he mixes in more knees (you do show one gif of Max trying a flying knee to be fair) and especially elbows.

I guess I should have been more clear: None of the really accomplished strikers Max has fought (and he's fought a few very good ones) have had such a significant reach advantage on him. Cole Miller is...well yeah. Fili is okay, used his jab better vs Jury than I'd ever seen him before. I'd need to see how long he tried to fight vs Max. Do Bronx? Wasn't that fight like 1 minute and mostly on the mat where Oliveira had the weird throat injury? Even though he's a much lesser striker than Tony, that would have been an interesting one to look at because of Oliveira's grappling threat. Max having to close the distance on a much longer fighter who also can and will look to tie him up and force grappling exchanges.

Yes, max likes knees too

Tony does use more knees and elbows, though, I'll give you that, but that doesn't mean he's the more varied striker.

Tony will close the distance for max if they fight. He almost always does. As I've told you before, the only time he's fought long was against RDA, who is shorter than max and with a similar reach to max, yet RDA still managed to close the distance and take two rounds off of Tony.

It probably seems like I always pick against Tony, but really Khabib and Max are the only ones I think can beat him at LW right now.

 

[mkess101]

Yes, max likes knees too

Tony does use more knees and elbows, though, I'll give you that, but that doesn't mean he's the more varied striker.

Tony will close the distance for max if they fight. He almost always does. As I've told you before, the only time he's fought long was against RDA, who is shorter than max and with a similar reach to max, yet RDA still managed to close the distance and take two rounds off of Tony.

It probably seems like I always pick against Tony, but really Khabib and Max are the only ones I think can beat him at LW right now.

And I'm not counting Max out in the fight either. I think Tony wins, but it's no guarantee. They present problems for each other.

The thing is, Tony is a weird guy but that RDA fight should be a big flashing beacon that he doesn't ALWAYS have to be reckless. Against someone that has his complete respect striking, Tony will fight long yet still keep up his pace and pressure. I cannot imagine him not respecting Max.

I think at some point Tony also mixes in some sort of unorthodox way to force a grappling exchange and puts Max in trouble. Tony's crazy long arms aren't just a striking advantage, he locks in chokes far more easily than other guys due to it as well.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

More dangerous on the ground than Ortega?

Different animals. Tony is bigger and has better standup, Tony I’d say has a more complete MMA submission game which Ortega has a better strictly jiujitsu game.
But as far as MMA grappling you could argue Tony is better. However strictly jiujitsu, Ortega might have him beat.
Also to take into account Ortega usually trains gi. Tony trains mostly no gi.

 

[mkess101]

Different animals. Tony is bigger and has better standup, Tony I’d say has a more complete MMA submission game which Ortega has a better strictly jiujitsu game.
But as far as MMA grappling you could argue Tony is better. However strictly jiujitsu, Ortega might have him beat.
Also to take into account Ortega usually trains gi. Tony trains mostly no gi.

Ortega has one of the most dangerous guillotines in MMA. He's unique in that he seems to be able to use it from spots other guys can't.

But Tony's front headlock to snapdown is the best I've seen in MMA. He's perfected it.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

This is the type fight MMA fans dream of. Max is nearly impossible to finish, super tough, great hand game, is huge, a cardio machine and Tony is very similar but more creative and better ground game.

I think Max definitely beat Pettis more convincingly, but Pettis took advantage of a rusty Ferg and Tony was coming back from an injury. The one thing Max does not really have tho is power, and this is why I think Tony could be a hard match, as you can certainly hurt him but you have to finish him. This may be one of the first match ups in a while where Tony does not get dropped. I foresee a Robbie v Rory type fight, just phone booth swingin' insanity.

 

[RockyLockridge]

My hot take: Max beats any lightweight. With out weightcutting and a little bit more bulk, he can easily become the LW/FW goat.

 

[usadaguy]

That's why Ferguson refused to fight Holloway, its worse matchup for him than Khabib or Conor imo.