Social Math is racist

[TheMaster]

Has anyone actually read up on what they're directly addressing, what types of changes they're making to the classes and the teaching methodology? The studies upon which the competing viewpoints are based?

I read the reports that California's changes are based on and that NYC's approach to their gifted program is based on.

I think it's an important conversation but I suspect this thread is going to be filled with people who are knee jerk reacting to the thread title and couldn't be bothered to read up on the subject itself. An ironic twist in a thread about education and the value of learning, lol.

You know full well as well as from the quotes shown by some of the woke maths teachers what this is about.
There is no 'discussion'.
Maths is a pure discipline. You do it. If results don't fall on racial lines, perhaps there are on average different apptitudes for certain subjects between races? This is not surprising given we are living in modern civilization which has a primary rooting in certain people and civilizations and not others.

Cultural communism is easily exposed and shows itself and it's agenda for what it is when it tries to subvert subjects which are entirely neutral and don't care about who you are or where you come from.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Has anyone actually read up on what they're directly addressing, what types of changes they're making to the classes and the teaching methodology? The studies upon which the competing viewpoints are based?

I read the reports that California's changes are based on and that NYC's approach to their gifted program is based on.

I think it's an important conversation but I suspect this thread is going to be filled with people who are knee jerk reacting to the thread title and couldn't be bothered to read up on the subject itself. An ironic twist in a thread about education and the value of learning, lol.

Teaching math is overrated anyway, there's evidence to suggest that kids who aren't taught math until 6th grade do just as well at the end of 6th grade at math than those who are taught math from a young age and better on other subjects

Really young kids, like under 9, shouldn't even be wasting time learning math. If anything they should be doing more push ups and laps. Beyond that the most important thing is to get kids to read and write. If you can inspire a child to do those things on their own in a productive way then you've pretty much won the battle but most kids need some basic structure and a little adult force to make them read and write to the requisite level.

 

[Anewt]

Teaching math is overrated anyway, there's evidence to suggest that kids who aren't taught math until 6th grade do just as well at the end of 6th grade at math than those who are taught math from a young age and better on other subjects

Really young kids, like under 9, shouldn't even be wasting time learning math. If anything they should be doing more push ups and laps. Beyond that the most important thing is to get kids to read and write. If you can inspire a child to do those things on their own in a productive way then you've pretty much won the battle but most kids need some basic structure and a little adult force to make them read and write to the requisite level.

You're joking right? You think 8 year olds unable to do simple maths would be a positive thing ?

Your basing that on one guy's study from 1929 and a throw away article from 2010. Maths is handy in all functions of life. I'd prefer my nephews and neices to understand money and be able to make simple purchases.

If anything imo parents should put more focus on educating their kids and not relying so much on the system.

 

[Bald1]

So is the backbone of this idea that white people are better at math than others? Based on what?

Nevermind, don't want to know. Without math you're living in dirt. So this is a truly white supremacist idea. Nevermind one that's completely untrue.

 

[panamaican]

You know full well as well as from the quotes shown by some of the woke maths teachers what this is about.
There is no 'discussion'.
Maths is a pure discipline. You do it. If results don't fall on racial lines, perhaps there are on average different apptitudes for certain subjects between races? This is not surprising given we are living in modern civilization which has a primary rooting in certain people and civilizations and not others.

Cultural communism is easily exposed and shows itself and it's agenda for what it is when it tries to subvert subjects which are entirely neutral and don't care about who you are or where you come from.

Math is a pure discipline. Teaching is not. And this conversation isn't about math, it's about the teaching.

This is why people should read up on the subject because it will help them understand what is actually being discussed.

 

[TheMaster]

Math is a pure discipline. Teaching is not. And this conversation isn't about math, it's about the teaching.

This is why people should read up on the subject because it will help them understand what is actually being discussed.

The teaching of maths really doesn't have that many avenues for racial bias though.
It's not teaching history we're talking about...

 

[panamaican]

Teaching math is overrated anyway, there's evidence to suggest that kids who aren't taught math until 6th grade do just as well at the end of 6th grade at math than those who are taught math from a young age and better on other subjects

Really young kids, like under 9, shouldn't even be wasting time learning math. If anything they should be doing more push ups and laps. Beyond that the most important thing is to get kids to read and write. If you can inspire a child to do those things on their own in a productive way then you've pretty much won the battle but most kids need some basic structure and a little adult force to make them read and write to the requisite level.

And, theoretically, you're correct. But that's not the education system that we live with. We live in a system in which math instruction is filtered through the lens of teachers and an education system designed over 100 years ago.

 

[tastaylvr]

And, theoretically, you're correct. But that's not the education system that we live with. We live in a system in which math instruction is filtered through the lens of teachers and an education system designed over 100 years ago.

So can you explain how it can be racist?

 

[panamaican]

The teaching of maths really doesn't have that many avenues for racial bias though.
It's not teaching history we're talking about...

And this is why people should read up on the subject. The issue isn't racial bias (although that's the bugaboo that some people obsess over). The issue is girls, impoverished kids, racial bias, etc.

Without going overboard in discussing it, teacher bias is well documented when it comes to identifying talent and ability in students. Let's use the other end of the spectrum to explain - gifted kids. Teachers are only ~33% accurate when it comes to identifying which kids in their classes are gifted. Parents are over 70%. Why are teachers so bad at this when parents, who have no teaching experience, consistently outperform them? Because teachers view their classrooms through a pre-existing idea of what a gifted student looks like and regularly ignore kids who don't fit their stereotyped ideas.

Teaching is heavily influenced by teacher preferences. Students that are liked by their teachers get more encouragement and more opportunity, regardless of ability. This is independent of the subject being taught. So whether it's math or history or english or science, teachers personal biases (not exclusively racial biases) impact the learning opportunities of those kids. And the effect of those granted or denied opportunities accumulate over the years.

 

[panamaican]

So can you explain how it can be racist?

Why do you guys ignore girls and impoverished kids and fixate on the one thing?

Or do girls and impoverished kids not matter?

 

[TheMaster]

And this is why people should read up on the subject. The issue isn't racial bias (although that's the bugaboo that some people obsess over). The issue is girls, impoverished kids, racial bias, etc.

Without going overboard in discussing it, teacher bias is well documented when it comes to identifying talent and ability in students. Let's use the other end of the spectrum to explain - gifted kids. Teachers are only ~33% accurate when it comes to identifying which kids in their classes are gifted. Parents are over 70%. Why are teachers so bad at this when parents, who have no teaching experience, consistently outperform them? Because teachers view their classrooms through a pre-existing idea of what a gifted student looks like and regularly ignore kids who don't fit their stereotyped ideas.

Teaching is heavily influenced by teacher preferences. Students that are liked by their teachers get more encouragement and more opportunity, regardless of ability. This is independent of the subject being taught. So whether it's math or history or english or science, teachers personal biases (not exclusively racial biases) impact the learning opportunities of those kids. And the effect of those granted or denied opportunities accumulate over the years.

Ok I do agree on this.
But do you likewise agree that there may well be average mathematical or cognitive differences across racial groups that could play a factor and that ignoring this will likewise lead to skewed interpretations?

 

[tastaylvr]

Why do you guys ignore girls and impoverished kids and fixate on the one thing?

Or do girls and impoverished kids not matter?

What does that have to do with teaching math? How can you teach poor people one way in math and rich kids in another?

 

[FIghtxIQ]

I was completely average at math, and I'm fine with that. I probably could have worked harder, but I was more interested in pride and ps2 games at the time.

Now looking back at my peers, a guy we teased for years for never coming to hang with us (strict, semi religious family) now makes 500k+ over at Boeing. My point is we shouldn't have to further diminish our education system and lower the bar. We need to uplift, inspire and encourage more discipline

Apples and Oranges. Because there's kids making more than that just playing video games. Lots of options. I say focus on the stuff you enjoy doing. There will always be a market or culture for it and a way for you to make money doing it. We need all types of people. People working at Boeing, and people playing and working on videogames. All this VR Meta is coming from VR videogames and other RPG online games from the past. So even though people look at video games as just games, it's actually responsible for A LOT of technological advancements. There's a reason why Gates and Elon are gamers.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You're joking right? You think 8 year olds unable to do simple maths would be a positive thing ?

Your basing that on one guy's study from 1929 and a throw away article from 2010. Maths is handy in all functions of life. I'd prefer my nephews and neices to understand money and be able to make simple purchases.

If anything imo parents should put more focus on educating their kids and not relying so much on the system.

The kids were still taught things like basic counting and use of numbers. No reason you can't teach them how money works but you don't have to make a seven year old spend any serious amount of time memorizing multiplication tables when they'll know it just as well if they start in 6th grade and score better on other metrics.

 

[Anewt]

The kids were still taught things like basic counting and use of numbers. No reason you can't teach them how money works but you don't have to make a seven year old spend any serious amount of time memorizing multiplication tables when they'll know it just as well if they start in 6th grade and score better on other metrics.

I'd be highly surprised if the grade 6 mathematical standards in 1929 are remotely comparable to modern grade 6 mathematical standards.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Why do you guys ignore girls and impoverished kids and fixate on the one thing?

Or do girls and impoverished kids not matter?

you really should stop looking at every damn thing in the world through an identity politics lens.
after a while it just makes you look incapable of actual thought and a drone activist.
math is a great divider in life. if you are good at it, you go one way in life, if not, the other.
expecting equal competence in a subject, and stopping the entire field until the dumbest of us catches up kills the entire field.
because some people will NEVER catch up.
the point of education is not equal outcome, it's filtration and proper allocation.
it's absolutely insane to me that americans can't understand how dumb they will get while pursuing cretinous policies like this.

 

[Bald1]

I'd be highly surprised if the grade 6 mathematical standards in 1929 are remotely comparable to modern grade 6 mathematical standards.

Grade 6 mathematical standards in1985 Canada were kindergarten mathematical standards behind the iron curtain in 1985. No lie.

 

[Ruprecht]

Teaching math is overrated anyway, there's evidence to suggest that kids who aren't taught math until 6th grade do just as well at the end of 6th grade at math than those who are taught math from a young age and better on other subjects

Really young kids, like under 9, shouldn't even be wasting time learning math. If anything they should be doing more push ups and laps. Beyond that the most important thing is to get kids to read and write. If you can inspire a child to do those things on their own in a productive way then you've pretty much won the battle but most kids need some basic structure and a little adult force to make them read and write to the requisite level.

I find that hard to believe. From personal experience in schools that encourage kids to learn what they are capable of, compared to public education in Australia where they piss fart around for about 4 years, they don't catch up by highschool. If at all.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Why do you guys ignore girls and impoverished kids and fixate on the one thing?

Or do girls and impoverished kids not matter?

You linked two sources of your own in this thread, neither of them said very much at all, but the far more substantial of the two focused almost exclusively on race.

The mods around here are getting really, really bad at looking at their own sources.

 

[Bargey]

Post-modernist drivel, brought to you by low-intelligence actors who continue to promote laziness and retard society in some abstract presentation of empathy for personal gain.

Critics told you this was all coming 60 years ago.


That position from Nadine Ebri is what will destroy America. Such short-sightedness...

She probably doesn’t understand basic algebra. It’s the experts that are more concerning like that computer science professor that was more concerned with Euclid getting too much credit that providing students with the programming skills they paid for him to teach.