Matchmaking characteristics of Boxing (promoters) creeping into the UFC

[CassiusJacare]

It seems like the new trend for UFC champions is to not call out the #1 Contender (or guys thereabouts), rather it is to call out the guy who is perceived to be the 'biggest draw'.

One thing which the likes of Dana, Lorenzo, Rogan etc. have been very critical towards boxing in the past is that several champions (and promoters) would essentially 'duck' difficult challengers, and that in the UFC, the guys (champions) will always fight the best.

The whole point of having divisional rankings and #1 contenders is so that we can determine the next fighter in line for a title shot. Let me just say that I have no issue with T-Wood flatlining Robbie (no investment in either guy), however I do have an issue with his post-fight comments though.

Bisping calls-out #13 ranked Henderson. Eddie calls-out unranked FW McGregor when he has Khabib, Ferguson, Barboza or even a possible RDA rematch. T-Wood calls-out unranked Diaz when it has been determined that Wonderboy is the #1 contender.

Shit is getting ridiculous. Anyways, what are your thoughts people, are you happy with the direction in which matchmaking is going, or do you want the Champions fight the #1 contenders (barring injuries/pull-outs and other unforeseen circumstances)?

Edit: Realising the length, expecting lots of b4 'didn't read lol'.

 

[rbastid]

Wouldn't you do the same as a fighter?

They realize their careers can end in an instant and they need to make the money while it's there. If you can make $800K off a fight as opposed to just your base and win of $200K, you'd do it.

Further more I don't have a problem in MMA because MMA rankings are complete horse crap. Guys are ranked often not by their accomplishments, but by how much the journalist like them. Machida is ranked #8 at MW, despite losing his last 2 (3 of 4) and being 2-3 over the last 3 years, that's not #8 MW level, but according to the rankings he's essentially in the title picture. Hell Belfort is #4 in the division despite his only wins being over Hendo in the last 3 years (who despite the title shot is still ranked #13)

There's also the problem that once you're a title holder or contender, you essentially need to lose 4 fights in a row before you're out of the top 10, one win in the mix and you shoot back up to #2.

Woodley might have been ranked higher than #4 when he was offered the title shot, but then injuries and waiting for his shot allowed active fighters to pass him by.

I think if guys want to call someone out, within reason, it's fine. Conor was going to fight RDA for the title, so if Eddie wants that money it's not a crazy fight to make. Bisping wants to avenge a loss and Hendo is going to retire, so it's a stretch, but they're going with it (Probably assuming Bisping wins unscathed and can defend again quickly, or Hendo KO's Bisping, retires and then they just make Jacare vs. Weidman for the title)

The only little gripe I'd have with Tyrone calling out Diaz (did he say Nate or Nick) was he for months complained that he was promised a title shot and was passed over, but now he's Okay with doing the exact same thing to Wonderboy. If he wants the money from the big name fight, that's cool, but with that money will come a little loss of integrity.

 

[MestizoIV]

creeping? Its already here

 

[CostumedExtrmst]

Blame the UFC. If they had a legit, MERIT BASED ranking system and title shots, this Pandora's Box never would have opened and infested the UFC. Blame Dana and Zuffa greed and insincerity.

 

[CassiusJacare]

Blame the UFC. If they had a legit, MERIT BASED ranking system and title shots, this Pandora's Box never would have opened and infested the UFC. Blame Dana and Zuffa greed and insincerity.

I agree. I did mention that in the past Dana and others were overly critical of boxing for these reasons, but they are now allowing/promoting these ridiculous call-outs rather than making the champs fight the #1 guy.

 

[CassiusJacare]

Wouldn't you do the same as a fighter?

They realize their careers can end in an instant and they need to make the money while it's there. If you can make $800K off a fight as opposed to just your base and win of $200K, you'd do it.

Further more I don't have a problem in MMA because MMA rankings are complete horse crap. Guys are ranked often not by their accomplishments, but by how much the journalist like them. Machida is ranked #8 at MW, despite losing his last 2 (3 of 4) and being 2-3 over the last 3 years, that's not #8 MW level, but according to the rankings he's essentially in the title picture. Hell Belfort is #4 in the division despite his only wins being over Hendo in the last 3 years (who despite the title shot is still ranked #13)

There's also the problem that once you're a title holder or contender, you essentially need to lose 4 fights in a row before you're out of the top 10, one win in the mix and you shoot back up to #2.

Woodley might have been ranked higher than #4 when he was offered the title shot, but then injuries and waiting for his shot allowed active fighters to pass him by.

I think if guys want to call someone out, within reason, it's fine. Conor was going to fight RDA for the title, so if Eddie wants that money it's not a crazy fight to make. Bisping wants to avenge a loss and Hendo is going to retire, so it's a stretch, but they're going with it (Probably assuming Bisping wins unscathed and can defend again quickly, or Hendo KO's Bisping, retires and then they just make Jacare vs. Weidman for the title)

The only little gripe I'd have with Tyrone calling out Diaz (did he say Nate or Nick) was he for months complained that he was promised a title shot and was passed over, but now he's Okay with doing the exact same thing to Wonderboy. If he wants the money from the big name fight, that's cool, but with that money will come a little loss of integrity.

It shouldn't be up to the fighter unless you pull like McGregor. McGregor IS the money fight and therefore can go after some like RDA. But, that fight fell-apart and instead we now have this Nate Diaz rematch bs. The guy is healthy, unwilling to return the FW, and is fighting the #5 ranked LW at WW... again!

The whole point is for guys like Dana, Joe Silva and Shelby to make the champions fight the #1 guys. It shouldn't be up to someone like T-Wood (who sat out for 2 yrs) to skip #1 Wonderboy and instead call-out Nick Diaz who has not fought at WW in 3 years (or won a fight in 5 years).

Bisping vs. Hendo II is a farce. I don't want to get into that, because it is a joke (my opinion).

 

[rbastid]

It shouldn't be up to the fighter unless you pull like McGregor. McGregor IS the money fight and therefore can go after some like RDA. But, that fight fell-apart and instead we now have this Nate Diaz rematch bs. The guy is healthy, unwilling to return the FW, and is fighting the #5 ranked LW at WW... again!

The whole point is for guys like Dana, Joe Silva and Shelby to make the champions fight the #1 guys. It shouldn't be up to someone like T-Wood (who sat out for 2 yrs) to skip #1 Wonderboy and instead call-out Nick Diaz who has not fought at WW in 3 years (or won a fight in 5 years).

Bisping vs. Hendo II is a farce. I don't want to get into that, because it is a joke (my opinion).

Like I said though, the #1 guy can often be BS because there is no criteria for rankings. MMA "Journalist" vote based on their feelings, and that may not always match with who should be the #1.

I've always said I'd like some hard rankings criteria where a loss means X number of spots dropped (with differing amounts based on UD, SD, KO/SUB) then they can factor in who you lost to and what not. Also there needs to be a time period to which fights count towards rankings, no more "Well he was the champ 7 years ago" BS that allows someone like Rashad to be ranked #8 despite not having a win in 3 years. It may not be the most fair way to do things, but if you want guys to always fight the #1 contender, you need to take out the immense fanboy nature of MMA writers who created the rankings mess and make things almost completely statistical.

 

[rbastid]

Blame the UFC. If they had a legit, MERIT BASED ranking system and title shots, this Pandora's Box never would have opened and infested the UFC. Blame Dana and Zuffa greed and insincerity.

I'm all for a merit/statistical rankings system, but I don't think you can totally blame Dana and Zuffa's greed without also blaming our greed. We've had times when a deserving guy gets a shot and Sherdog and other places blow up because we deem that opponent boring. People around here kept calling for Diaz to face GSP despite not earning a shot, they shouted that Conor should go up to 155 and get a shot without ever defending his title, there were even calls to see Pettis go to 145 (and Aldo go up which made more sense) the second he won the title.

The UFC may be greedy for money, but we're also greedy for fights that include guys we like or deem exciting, even if they aren't the most worthy title contenders.

 

[CostumedExtrmst]

I'm all for a merit/statistical rankings system, but I don't think you can totally blame Dana and Zuffa's greed without also blaming our greed. We've had times when a deserving guy gets a shot and Sherdog and other places blow up because we deem that opponent boring. People around here kept calling for Diaz to face GSP despite not earning a shot, they shouted that Conor should go up to 155 and get a shot without ever defending his title, there were even calls to see Pettis go to 145 (and Aldo go up which made more sense) the second he won the title.

The UFC may be greedy for money, but we're also greedy for fights that include guys we like or deem exciting, even if they aren't the most worthy title contenders.

I agree with that also. That's why i'm not taking anyone seriously that shits on these fighters right now. They're just trying to capitalize in the current climate. Problem is, fans as usual are ruled by bias. They deem it ok for some to chase money and sacrilege for others to do it.

The absolute truth of the matter is, most people only wanted Woodley to be denied a title shot, because they were panic stricken that what happened tonight was going to happen. MMA has the P4P fakest, most insincere fans in sports. Couple that with Dana and co, bullshit used car salesman approach and, it's no wonder MMA is still seen as a freak show, and not a legit sport.

I say get all you can to the athletes. They are expendable to UFC brass. Cogs in the machine, that can usually be easily replaced.

 

[FreddyFingers]

Who cares anyway really there is nothing fair about MMA. There is no deserves.

So and so spent x years training and fought their way up and deserves a title shot? Who cares?

Deserves, earned? Nobody is going to pay for anything if they are not interested and people pay fighters.

Fan interest pays fighters.

A fighters worth is "the amount of fan interest" not how well they actually fight.

It's prize fighting.

 

[Andrew06]

it's almost as if fighting isn't a long term career, and that fighters want to get paid for putting their health on the line

 

[Blayt7hh]

I have seen a lot of bitching about Tyron calling out Nick, but did I miss the part where Dana said that was the fight they were going to do? Because if not, then shut up about it until he does please

And for the people defending it if the fight was made, you're wrong too. Tyron can call out whoever he wants that is his prerogative and at the end of the day, just talk. It is up to the UFC to hold a standard though and ensure that he is only facing guys that are worthy of challenging him. If they don't, we will get a shitty product. Hendo/Bisping is a travesty

 

[CassiusJacare]

Like I said though, the #1 guy can often be BS because there is no criteria for rankings. MMA "Journalist" vote based on their feelings, and that may not always match with who should be the #1.

I've always said I'd like some hard rankings criteria where a loss means X number of spots dropped (with differing amounts based on UD, SD, KO/SUB) then they can factor in who you lost to and what not. Also there needs to be a time period to which fights count towards rankings, no more "Well he was the champ 7 years ago" BS that allows someone like Rashad to be ranked #8 despite not having a win in 3 years. It may not be the most fair way to do things, but if you want guys to always fight the #1 contender, you need to take out the immense fanboy nature of MMA writers who created the rankings mess and make things almost completely statistical.

I totally agree with you that there needs to be a better system for the rankings 100%. But these fights are illogical.

When someone like Alvarez calls-out McGregor he is avoiding an entire division (irrespective of rankings), considering McGregor is the FW champ and will fight at WW twice.

Another one is Bisping. Maybe we don't know for certain who the clear #1 contender is at MW. However, I don't think there is a person alive which believes the #1 contender is not one of Jacare, Romero, Rockhold or Weidman. Even if someone believes those guys don't deserve a title shot, are you really going to go for Dan Henderson who just beat a WW in Lombard and before that was beaten by Belfort..? That doesn't make any sense.

My point essentially is these recent fights/call-outs are not logical and do not make any sporting sense. Even if you think Hendo should be above the likes of Machida, does he leapfrog the entire division with a 1 fight win streak over Lombard...?

 

[Red Ninja]

Fighting is a business and with the money Conor and Brock are getting this was bound to happen.

 

[kathebrahl]

It started with letting McGregor run the show. I had no problem with this lw title shot but they were saying he was hard to deny a ww title shot if he defeated nate diaz at 170.... After the bisping vs hendo farce there's no shame anymore