Masvidal is overrated

HHJ said:
What good fighter that wasnt shot did Covington beat to be considered great?
How would masvidal fare against Usman if he stood up the whole time with him like he did with Covington?
I think the differences between the 3 are not much at the moment.
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I dunno, how would Masvidal fare in a wrestling match with Usman? They had an MMA fight and Usman won clearly; that's all that's really relevant there.
Sure you can run down their Fight Finders and always find an argument to pump up or bust down someone's wins and losses. I definitely consider that, but also just what I'm actually seeing out there. It's not just who you beat, but are you beating them the way you should for where they are at the time? RDA, Maia, Kim, etc. certainly weren't shot when Colby beat them. Lawler and Woodley really the only ones you can make that claim with, and he dominated them just the way he should've; they weren't competitive at all. He went back and forth in a close fight with Usman until he got shit-kicked in the 5th. What I see out there is great wrestling, insane pressure that few can deal with, improving striking that more often than not gets the job done, and bottomless cardio (and believe me, I can't stand the man, but credit where it's due). Pretty much all of that goes for Usman as well. You could put them in there with bums, and I trust they will have zero difficulties because of the overall level they're at. Would I be surprised if Masvidal went out there and lost to Maia or Wonderboy again? Nah. Would I be surprised if he managed to lose a rematch to Chiesa? Also nah. Would I be surprised if he lost to Luque, Neal, or even got out-hustled by Magny? Triple nah. That's not to say I would favor all or any of them over Masvidal...but color me completely unaffected if he lost those fights, because his style still allows people into fights with him; even if they're fights he should win on paper. Even Nate Diaz had him backing himself up to the cage and eating shots at points, and it wasn't because Nate is a great pressure fighter.

And this is all my opinion of course, but I think Masvidal is a clear cut below Usman and Colby. Can he match them in terms of raw talent? Sure, that's probably true. But If we're talking overall ability to perform as a top level fighter, hard no from me. His lack of consistency is probably the main culprit.
 
sadowolf said:
I dunno, how would Masvidal fare in a wrestling match with Usman? They had an MMA fight and Usman won clearly; that's all that's really relevant there.
Sure you can run down their Fight Finders and always find an argument to pump up or bust down someone's wins and losses. I definitely consider that, but also just what I'm actually seeing out there. It's not just who you beat, but are you beating them the way you should for where they are at the time? RDA, Maia, Kim, etc. certainly weren't shot when Colby beat them. Lawler and Woodley really the only ones you can make that claim with, and he dominated them just the way he should've; they weren't competitive at all. He went back and forth in a close fight with Usman until he got shit-kicked in the 5th. What I see out there is great wrestling, insane pressure that few can deal with, improving striking that more often than not gets the job done, and bottomless cardio (and believe me, I can't stand the man, but credit where it's due). Pretty much all of that goes for Usman as well. You could put them in there with bums, and I trust they will have zero difficulties because of the overall level they're at. Would I be surprised if Masvidal went out there and lost to Maia or Wonderboy again? Nah. Would I be surprised if he managed to lose a rematch to Chiesa? Also nah. Would I be surprised if he lost to Luque, Neal, or even got out-hustled by Magny? Triple nah. That's not to say I would favor all or any of them over Masvidal...but color me completely unaffected if he lost those fights, because his style still allows people into fights with him, Even Nate Diaz had him backing himself up to the cage and eating shots at points, and it wasn't because Nate is a great pressure fighter.

And this is all my opinion of course, but I think Masvidal is a clear cut below Usman and Colby. Can he match them in terms of raw talent? Sure, that's probably true. But If we're talking overall ability to perform as a top level fighter, hard no from me. His lack of consistency is probably the main culprit.
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lack of consistency? 2019 fighter of the year
6 days notice goes 5 rds with the champ.
People seem to hang on to this theory that Masvidal can only be what they thought of him 4 or 5 yrs ago and dont like that opinion challenged.
 
Here's a thick slice of cheese for y'alls Horhay Masvidal Hateburger
 
HHJ said:
lack of consistency? 2019 fighter of the year
6 days notice goes 5 rds with the champ.
People seem to hang on to this theory that Masvidal can only be what they thought of him 4 or 5 yrs ago and dont like that opinion challenged.
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Winning some fighter of the year award (according to who, BTW?) doesn't mean anything to me. That's often a popularity contest that doesn't necessarily require you to be head of your class, and going 3-0 in a year doesn't automatically make you a consistent fighter.
I never argued he wasn't tough or talented, so I don't see why him going 5 rounds with the champ refutes what I said. He gave Usman a good fight; not sure how that makes him consistent other than that he's a consistently tough fighter who's not an easy fight for anyone. You won't catch me disagreeing with that.
I was on the Masvidal train for YEARS in terms of how he'd been an overlooked talent that was capable of being more highly regarded than he was. I know pretty well what improvements he's made, and how he's legitimately evolved over the past several years. He's definitely lived up to a lot of his potential. I'm not hanging onto some theory that he's "the same fighter he's always been." Anyone paying attention can see that's not true.

But outside of trusting in his athleticism and power a lot more, he still gets lackadaisical between explosions, and is too willing to allow himself to be pressured and neutralized. This isn't 4 or 5 years ago Masvidal; you can see this in recent fights. Many of his tendencies still remain, and they're what allowed Till to get the better of him for the early going of their fight, Nate to have success pressuring and boxing with him (even though he mostly shrugged it off), and Usman sticking him to the cage most times he wanted to. I think Colby would be able to do the same thing, but would probably be more successful actually putting him on the mat. And again, I think a lot of those same tendencies could still cost him against fighters he lost to less than 4 or 5 years ago. This isn't some Masvidal bashing session going on, I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em as someone who's been interested in Masvidal as a fighter since long before he even came to the UFC. I'm not saying he can't hang with anyone or that everyone beats him; I just don't think he's a perennial top level guy. Granted, part of this does speak to how deep the division is rather than how good Masvidal is or isn't. He could definitely go out there and prove me wrong, but it's not like what I'm saying is completely off-base and unfounded. Maybe I might have more faith in him if he went out there and handed Leon Edwards a real three-piece and a soda, but he fought Diaz instead in a pointless fight for a pointless, made up belt, and while that certainly did great things for his career, it wasn't a step toward more legitimacy in the division from a sporting standpoint. I want to see him taking the fights that matter, because the way some people talk about him I get similar vibes as when people were saying Penn was the #2 best WW just because he gave GSP a tough fight the first time around, despite not having fought any other relevant top WW (which is obviously not a 1:1 comparison with Mas because he did beat a top 10 fighter, but still haha).
 
The only person ranked below him that would give him problems is Wonderboy, so I'd say he's right where he belongs based on their recent performances.
 
today123 said:
After seeing the UFC rankings today I realize that Masvidal is overrated.

His only win in the top 10 is Chiesa.
He has three losses in the top 10 (plus is Usman) and is somehow ranked above two of the opponents.

He should be #7 not #4.
Click to expand...

his record proves that long ago.
 
HHJ said:
What good fighter that wasnt shot did Covington beat to be considered great?
How would masvidal fare against Usman if he stood up the whole time with him like he did with Covington?
I think the differences between the 3 are not much at the moment.
Click to expand...

funny how i say usman beat jorge really easy already no need to see that again.
 
sadowolf said:
Winning some fighter of the year award (according to who, BTW?) doesn't mean anything to me. That's often a popularity contest that doesn't necessarily require you to be head of your class, and going 3-0 in a year doesn't automatically make you a consistent fighter.
I never argued he wasn't tough or talented, so I don't see why him going 5 rounds with the champ refutes what I said. He gave Usman a good fight; not sure how that makes him consistent other than that he's a consistently tough fighter who's not an easy fight for anyone. You won't catch me disagreeing with that.
I was on the Masvidal train for YEARS in terms of how he'd been an overlooked talent that was capable of being more highly regarded than he was. I know pretty well what improvements he's made, and how he's legitimately evolved over the past several years. He's definitely lived up to a lot of his potential. I'm not hanging onto some theory that he's "the same fighter he's always been." Anyone paying attention can see that's not true.

But outside of trusting in his athleticism and power a lot more, he still gets lackadaisical between explosions, and is too willing to allow himself to be pressured and neutralized. This isn't 4 or 5 years ago Masvidal; you can see this in recent fights. Many of his tendencies still remain, and they're what allowed Till to get the better of him for the early going of their fight, Nate to have success pressuring and boxing with him (even though he mostly shrugged it off), and Usman sticking him to the cage most times he wanted to. I think Colby would be able to do the same thing, but would probably be more successful actually putting him on the mat. And again, I think a lot of those same tendencies could still cost him against fighters he lost to less than 4 or 5 years ago. This isn't some Masvidal bashing session going on, I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em as someone who's been interested in Masvidal as a fighter since long before he even came to the UFC. I'm not saying he can't hang with anyone or that everyone beats him; I just don't think he's a perennial top level guy. Granted, part of this does speak to how deep the division is rather than how good Masvidal is or isn't. He could definitely go out there and prove me wrong, but it's not like what I'm saying is completely off-base and unfounded. Maybe I might have more faith in him if he went out there and handed Leon Edwards a real three-piece and a soda, but he fought Diaz instead in a pointless fight for a pointless, made up belt, and while that certainly did great things for his career, it wasn't a step toward more legitimacy in the division from a sporting standpoint. I want to see him taking the fights that matter, because the way some people talk about him I get similar vibes as when people were saying Penn was the #2 best WW just because he gave GSP a tough fight the first time around, despite not having fought any other relevant top WW (which is obviously not a 1:1 comparison with Mas because he did beat a top 10 fighter, but still haha).
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I dont want to ee a diaz rematch thats for sure,would be pointless. But i got faith in Mas. To me,he is right up there with Colby and Usman and is capable of beating either. People keep saddling him with a "journeyman" tag because they dont like to think past their preconceived notions,and be wrong. The guy is dangerous and is knockin guys the fuck out at WW when alot of guys there arent. I aint sleepin on him at all.
 
snackgod said:
last i check forbes doesnt cover mma so i dont take there reporting on sports when there not talking about money to much.

what usman did was 10 times better than jorge. in 2019.
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How? How is beating Colby and a shot woodley that special?
You can scroll down that link to see all the media outlets that gave him the same award bud
 
HHJ said:
How? How is beating Colby and a shot woodley that special?
You can scroll down that link to see all the media outlets that gave him the same award bud
Click to expand...

winning and defending a belt is better than no title fights. in 2019 jorge beat who old askrew and nate so how those wins make jorge the goat.
 
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