Marquez versus Pacquiao 3 November 12 fight discussion (DON'T START NEW ONES)

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Watch Duran/Hagler. Thats all I'm saying.

To be fair, dealing with Duran's level of power required a bit more caution than dealing with Floyd's would.. Hagler would struggle to connect with Floyd, but he would absolutely outwork him and possible catch him slipping once Floyd realized that he was falling behind on the cards and began to take risks.
 
You see it as a Tactic, where i see as an accident. Both guys are stepping forward and Jmm is stepping sec, so he foot lands on top of pac. i don't think for one sec it had any affect on this fight. Pac should have been side stepping instead of just backwards, that would have nullaflied the counter punching from JMM.

Although I'm inclined to disagree with you that it was an accident, I wholly agree that this did not affect the fight outcome. In the last fight, Manny's team was not able to solve the problem first posed by Mosley. I don't understand why Manny didn't do more lateral movement
 
The foot stepping is an accident that become a tactic.. First of all, it really is unavoidable with southies and orthadox fighters... being that it is unavoidable, a fighter has to make the choice about whether he wants to be the stomped or the stomper...

nothing wrong with it imo.. both Pac and JMM did it a lot in that fight. JMM was just better at it.
 
It was close, I had it as a draw.

I didnt want to see JMM walk away with the win though using dirty tricks.

Every fighter worth his salt has dirty tricks in their arsenal.
 
Every fighter worth his salt has dirty tricks in their arsenal.

Manny seems to be a clean fighter. During those instances when he was fouled, he did not resort to fight a foul with a foul. This is just my opinion.
 
So everyone else complaining drew their conclusions from round by round scoring including all the fans in the arena? Maybe my comment was a little too general but so are tweets. It'd be interesting to see what all these fighters think after watching the fight again and if they did do round by round breakdowns.

I take issue with people calling this fight a "robbery" even if it's a pro boxer saying so. Again, I don't see how a fight this close can be a robbery.

I always score my fights round by round. Been doing it for years and i had that fight 117-111 you can maybe say 116-112. But now way did pac come close to winning that fight.
 
qutoed from another poster on another site.. so this is not my translation, and I have no way of verifying how accurate it actually is.

Enjoy.

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JMM: Thank you for having me. I think the first point worth noting is the great preparation we had. We had a new team, new doctors, a new physical preparation. Apart from that, in the end what everyone saw last Saturday is to be a plain robbery. I think it was very sad, a grand disillusionment, knowing that you’ve won the fight-in this case, us, the team, and me personally-knowing that we won the fight, and when they announce the decision- well, it gives you something to think about, it fills you full of rage, and you don’t even know what to do or who to revenge. I still haven’t decided; I still haven’t discussed with my family. I haven’t even had the time or the opportunity to discuss with them, but…I’ve put everything on the scale (weighed everything out). There are five fights which they have robbed me disgracefully. In this one, another time would be the fourth; and for the same thing to happen? What would happen? I think it would be the worst thing that could happen in my career, so I’d have to take a correct decision, a drastic (definite) decision, whether we keep going or whether we don’t. But I keep maintaining the position that I can retire, or I can discuss with my family or discuss with my team, and make a drastic decision on whether we continue or not.

Interview: If it’s not Manny Pacquiao, with whom does Juan Manuel Marquez return?

JMM: If it’s not with him, it’s with nobody else. I’ll retire.

One of the principal conditions is that the fight isn’t in Las Vegas again. Two, that the fight be made with neutral judges, through an organization or to choose one Mexican judge, one Filipino Judge, and a neutral judge, and if need be to get a fourth judge to be supervising; a judge who has been dedicating his whole life to this sport, so that there are no doubts; and afterwards, looking at the economic, which in this situation is important, so that it works out well for us as well. Everyone here has swollen feet in their shoes (an expression meaning they are sore or worn) from however many blows there were, but we walk away not with a horrible amount, but not exactly what one would think.

I think what we saw this past Saturday was something atrocious; something that, truly, damaged the prestige of this sport, and as I said in some interviews the morning of today, I said, the sport, boxing, doesn’t bear the blame. The blame falls on the people who make it go round. There are people behind this sport who I love very much; there are judges, there are presidents of organizations; there are many people who control the sport that ruin it.

I would also love to have, as they do in American Football, that when there is a doubtful call, they go to the replay. I think that that would be very good; a hit, a fall, a slip, or whatever. And it would be too to have a fourth judge; a fourth judge that has a monitor right by him with replays with the 3 minutes of every round, so that he can qualify every round with his score. He can have one minute of rest, and he can also be revising his score in that minute, quickly or maybe at a higher speed, and keep qualifying so you can go in real time. Have that fourth judge, and then collect and compare, and then go with the decision of the fourth judge, but with comparing and qualifying the scores of the rest of them.

The 12th of November, we worked with intelligence, we worked with speed, counter-punches, lateral steps, all of the experience I have in this sport, and it complicated it for him. It was like that the whole fight; he didn’t even know what to do. So, they had asked me, “are you going to change your strategy?”, and I’d say “no, we’re going to shape the strategy as the rounds pass; as he adjusts, I adjust”, and that’s how I always handle it; in every fight, see what the opponent is doing, and keep ad******g, keep ad******g what you have to do, what you have to not do…so with the opponent, it’s round-by-round.

Possibly, the desire to cook up the fight with Floyd Mayweather , the bets, influenced everything, everything. I think that here, even Bob Arum realized it. I went up to the press conference, and Bob Arum said to me “It’s business.” What does that make you think?” I could have given him a huge smack (studio laughs)… the truth, the truth is I’m a person who shows respect, an educated (in Spanish meaning well-mannered) person, but it gave me the nerve to want to say “Yea? It’s Business? Let’s see how well your business goes for you now.” But if you have the nerve to say “it’s business”... sure, you take care of your business, but who looks after my efforts? My 18 years of career? The hopes of beating the supposed “best pound-for-pound”? It’s because of these things that I want to say “let me retire from this sport”, which I love a lot, but this is disgusting. “Business is business, but you can go fuck yourself”; that doesn’t work.

I love politics and I love being always being into something, and how they say “speaking of religion and politics is to bring up something that never ends”, but I like it. Why do I like it? Because there are times that we see people who want to help, and times we see people who want to help themselves; not help, but help themselves. And it would please me at some point if I could get into it and get involved with politics; to help and do something for the people, in the sport or just here on our planet Earth, to know that bad people exist but good people exist also.

It wouldn’t be so drastic as to say “I’m not a boxer anymore, now I’m a politician”; no no no. Here it’s a question of seeing, analyzing, putting everything on the scale, whether I continue or not; so the first decision is whether or not we continue in the sport, and from there see what we do, and in what I’m going to dedicate a future, because there’s no sport, or no career, that lasts forever, and I think I’m I my last stage and I have to see what I’m going to dedicate myself to; what I’m going to live for; so that I don’t turn into a little old man, what I’m going to dedicate myself to and be distracted by…because one way or another, everyone knows that when someone doesn’t dedicate themselves to doing anything, in their house without knowing what to do, their years pass over them like water and old age comes suddenly; and I don’t want that to happen to me. I’ll dedicate myself to something.
 
But a boxer is going to fight for position too. It's a common thing. Why does a fighter who won the fight need an excuse for why he won anyways? The whole foot stopper excuse is like admitting Marquez won.

Stepping on an opponent's foot happens all the time, especially with a southpaw and an orthodox fighter facing each other. But it also done deliberately. Marquez? I'm not sure. Maybe. Intentional or not, it did not affect the outcome.

Another point, I think footstepping was mentioned not as an excuse. Rather, it can be argued that Manny won despite having his feet stepped on. I'm not insisting on this, I'm just saying it can be argued.
 
^This.

What i saw was Manny throwing the first punches, landing a couple, eating a few counter-punches in return, then landing a few on the way out.

Manny took it.......but just by a little.

Marquez is a counterpuncher, one of the best in the business. But had he engaged Manny more often, risking it a bit more, maybe Marquez would have gotten the nod of the judges. Too close: it could have been a win by Marquez, or a draw, or a win by Manny "by just a little." Too close to be called a robbery.
 
The yellow drink was confirmed to be pedialyte by Keith Kizer.
 
$1.3M American PPV buys brings in more revenue than $43M Mexican veiwers. That's the difference and that's why PPV numbers are what's important.

seriously, as someone else said, who gives a rat's ass about the 40 something millions mexicans who haven't paid a dime to watch this fight? It's all about PPV money generated in the States and the truth is that there are only two boxers who can generate a million plus buys every fight. Moreover, they are both near retirement and there isn't any sign of the next big PPV superstars to take over. It's not HBO and Showtime, with their ever decreasing budgets, that will support by themselves the salary of dozens of world champions.


A tidbit for you..... each year advertising makes 1.73 trillion $$ globally.
Another tidbit for you.... Google makes 8 billion $$ yearly off advertising. That is online advertising.

Ask yourself..... why are companies fighting for advertising spots for the superbowl?? Because millions are tuning in right?

43 million Mexicans watching a fight on TV is a lot of money...... saying it is irrelevant and not important is probably the stupidest thing anyone could say.

EDIT: Rewatched the fight and it is a 6-6 draw. I had it 7-5 Pacquiao before. I hope there is no part 4 it will end up the same way by Pacquiao winning a close decision or a draw, would rather watch Pacquiao vs Floyd or Bradley.
 
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Pacman won, IMO. I mean, it was close, but he outworked him and deserved the win more than JMM, in my eyes. Marquez defniitely landed the cleaner shots in the fight, but Manny also caught him with a lot of straight lefts and he landed more of them than Marquez.

Again, this was a close fight, but to boo Manny out of the building like that afterwards was just uncalled for. The Lara/Williams decision deserved that reaction 1000 times more than this one.
 
I don't understand why they care if somebody smokes weed or not. If anything, it would detract from their fitness.

I always assumed it was a safety thing, since you can't really tell WHEN someone smoked dope just by looking at a positive test.

They don't want someone getting hurt in a fight and then have it come to light that the fighter may have been intoxicated.
 
Pacman won, IMO. I mean, it was close, but he outworked him and deserved the win more than JMM, in my eyes. Marquez defniitely landed the cleaner shots in the fight, but Manny also caught him with a lot of straight lefts and he landed more of them than Marquez.

Again, this was a close fight, but to boo Manny out of the building like that afterwards was just uncalled for. The Lara/Williams decision deserved that reaction 1000 times more than this one.

this
 
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