Mark Rippetoe Article on "Abs"

Absolutely. Any method of figuring out weaklinks can be misunderstood, which is why a certain amount of knowledge and experience is necessary.

I stated this mainly to clarify soreness wont be an indicator with squats and deads. Your post was good I just wanted to clarify that point to the possible not so enlightened beginner. Definitely no hate here I appreciate your posts here.
 
I stated this mainly to clarify soreness wont be an indicator with squats and deads. Your post was good I just wanted to clarify that point to the possible not so enlightened beginner. Definitely no hate here I appreciate your posts here.

WHOOooo... so ... no e-fight then? *is disappointed* *throws popcorn at wall and leaves*
 
I have an interesting incident relating to abs and ab training. When I used to train, I thought it was funny to ask guys to punch me in the stomach as hard as they could. Often these would be lifters... strong guys... and they would wind up and hit me as hard as they could and I would laugh at them. Not a big deal because I was big and strong, usually bigger than them.

But I havnt trained in several years very much, and am not really in any kind of athletic shape. A couple of months ago, I had a dinner party at my house. I cooked ribs, tri-tip, shrimp, chicken, etc... all on the grill. Oh yeah, also salmon, lol. and of course corn on the cob. I had all my lifters over, their girlfriends, etc. We had a great time, and after dinner we were laughing and talking and doing the stuff that guys do, and Jon North ended up punching me in the shoulder. It was all in fun and the details arent important, but, I immedietly challenged him to punch me as hard as he could in the stomach. Well Jon is a 200+ lb guy who clean and jerks over 400lbs and who also was a D1 football player, and who has also gotten in some trouble because he has been in a few fights, and people he hits tend to end up hurt bad. So hes strong and knows how to punch. He ended up winding up and giving me his best right above the belly button. Here is what happened... I ended up with a HUGE purple bruise... and some huge swelling, where the skin was pinched between his fist and my ab muscles, it took 2-3 months for the swelling to go away. But you know what, I didnt double over, didnt wince, didnt get the air knocked out of me. I stood t here and smiled at him after he hit me.

Now I have never done any real ab training besides reps in the squat in the high 700's with no belt, deadlifts for reps in the 700's, push presses for reps with over 400lbs, etc. I always thought that these things gave me a strong core, and certainly when I felt my abs they felt fairly well developed.

My personal experience is that the kind of punch that Jon gave me that produced the kind of bruising and swelling that it did is not something that the average guy can stand there and smile avbout immedietly afterward, even if said average guy does a lot of ab work and lots of crunches.

My opinions are not based off of this incident, but I think it illistrates things. My opinion is based off of lots of years of working with guys putting big weights overhead, and is this.. if you want to get strong abs put big weights overhead, squat and deadlift big weights, etc, and your abs will get strong along with the rest of you. I have coached kids who did no ab work who had abs so thick that you could porobably have taken a jackhammer to their stomach and they wou ld have smiled at you. I have never seen anyone develope freaky thick abs from crunches.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Ross Enamait also said that he sparred with good pro fighters at world level and never went down from a punch to the body since he did a lot of core work, i guess it is in the same page as the post above, they just reached the same point from different paths (ross being more of a weighted sit up/ab wheel/dumbbell work guy)
 
Thank you for that.

I've been wondering for a while why my lower back is constantly irritated. I'll try this and see if it doesn't help.
 
Good point Glenn. I'd add that it helps to be 330 pounds, like yourself, when absorbing a punch from a 200-pounder.

You make a good point.

Still, I'm sure most powerlifters have stronger core muscles than most fighters that do core-specific training. That doesn't necessarily mean they are better at taking a punch, since awareness, movement, breathing, pain tolerance, etc. all come into play.
 
Ross Enamait also said that he sparred with good pro fighters at world level and never went down from a punch to the body since he did a lot of core work, i guess it is in the same page as the post above, they just reached the same point from different paths (ross being more of a weighted sit up/ab wheel/dumbbell work guy)

But his core work comes from more than just ab wheels and situps.


He does pretty heavy DB snatches (100lbs +), plays with a heavy sandbag, tireflips, etc etc.
 
You make a good point.

Still, I'm sure most powerlifters have stronger core muscles than most fighters that do core-specific training. That doesn't necessarily mean they are better at taking a punch, since awareness, movement, breathing, pain tolerance, etc. all come into play.

Agreed. Powerlifters and Olympic lifters have to be outrageously strong from head to toe, which is great, but taking a head or body punch is something that fighters practice (to instill muscle-memory quickness of form that allows for a blow to be absorbed) as well as train (conditioning like medicine ball drills and ab work).

This is not to say that someone couldn't do both. You're probably aware that a lot of old-time strongmen would do a challenge of allowing someone from the crowd to punch them, and that there are powerlifters that have made the transition to MMA today.
 
That only solidifies the point that individual core work isn't really a requirement. If fighters want to get good at taking body shots, they should take body shots. Which I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread.
 
That only solidifies the point that individual core work isn't really a requirement. If fighters want to get good at taking body shots, they should take body shots. Which I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread.

I think that if someone identifies a weakness anywhere, they should put in whatever extra work needs to be done to strengthen it. I also see no need to put in extra specific work on an already strong area, regardless of what that is.
 
Most fighters do core work and don't do at least a few of the following lifts that I consider "awesome":

- deadlift
- squat
- clean
- snatch
- strict press
- jerk or some other heavy overhead

If they aren't doing at least 3 of these lifts which are awesome for increasing overall body strength and excellent core strength and they are doing individual ab work, they need to re-evaluate their routine.
 
Most fighters do core work and don't do at least a few of the following lifts that I consider "awesome":

- deadlift
- squat
- clean
- snatch
- strict press
- jerk or some other heavy overhead

If they aren't doing at least 3 of these lifts which are awesome for increasing overall body strength and excellent core strength and they are doing individual ab work, they need to re-evaluate their routine.

I gotta agree with that. If you look around it's amazing how many fighters and trainers still have outdated and/or inefficient ways of going about making even a reasonable (let alone advantageous) amount of strength.
 
Good point Glenn. I'd add that it helps to be 330 pounds, like yourself, when absorbing a punch from a 200-pounder.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? If not, then I apologize. For the record, I am not currently, or recently when Jon hit me, a 330lber. And I am certainly no badass. Hell I quit training MMA because I just hate to be hit in the face... and went to Judo because there is no hitting in that sport. I am not particularly tough or anything like that when it comes to fighting and dont make any such claims or relate any stories to give that impression. I am simply talking about abdominal strength, particularly as it relates to getting hit, since this is an MMA forum . I am a 290 pounder, who hasnt trained in any serious way for several years. I would characterize myself as fairly out of shape.

Yet even out of shape, I retain the ability so smile at a guy who hit me as hard as he can in the stomach, a guy that I think hits harder than anyone who has ever hit me in my life, and I have had 300+ pound guys who clean and jerked over 400lbs do the same thing to me, and not cause half the bruise that Jon did. I would hate to get into a fight with Jon, if he hit me like that in the face, id have broken bones and need surgery. If he had hit me in the ribs, he would have broken them. And for the record, Caleb Ward, who weighs around 280lbs, does a standing back flip with no problem, has clean and jerked 446lbs, and who I think could flat-back about 9/10ths of the guys in the NFL off the line, also hit me the same night Jon did. Caused a minor bruise and was nothing like Jon. So, as most of you know, size aint the only thing when it comes to hitting hard.

I only conclude from this what I think many of you guys know anyway. And that is that if you squat big weights, and lift big weights overhead, you have a strong core. Another way of putting it would be that if you can pick up and put over your head say, 400lbs, then you are all over strong, you pretty much cant have any real weak points. your legs are strong, y9ur abs are strong, your back is strong, your shoulders are strong, your arms are strong. which is a good thing.
 
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? If not, then I apologize. For the record, I am not currently, or recently when Jon hit me, a 330lber. And I am certainly no badass. Hell I quit training MMA because I just hate to be hit in the face... and went to Judo because there is no hitting in that sport. I am not particularly tough or anything like that when it comes to fighting and dont make any such claims or relate any stories to give that impression. I am simply talking about abdominal strength, particularly as it relates to getting hit, since this is an MMA forum . I am a 290 pounder, who hasnt trained in any serious way for several years. I would characterize myself as fairly out of shape.

Yet even out of shape, I retain the ability so smile at a guy who hit me as hard as he can in the stomach, a guy that I think hits harder than anyone who has ever hit me in my life, and I have had 300+ pound guys who clean and jerked over 400lbs do the same thing to me, and not cause half the bruise that Jon did. I would hate to get into a fight with Jon, if he hit me like that in the face, id have broken bones and need surgery. If he had hit me in the ribs, he would have broken them. And for the record, Caleb Ward, who weighs around 280lbs, does a standing back flip with no problem, has clean and jerked 446lbs, and who I think could flat-back about 9/10ths of the guys in the NFL off the line, also hit me the same night Jon did. Caused a minor bruise and was nothing like Jon. So, as most of you know, size aint the only thing when it comes to hitting hard.

I only conclude from this what I think many of you guys know anyway. And that is that if you squat big weights, and lift big weights overhead, you have a strong core. Another way of putting it would be that if you can pick up and put over your head say, 400lbs, then you are all over strong, you pretty much cant have any real weak points. your legs are strong, y9ur abs are strong, your back is strong, your shoulders are strong, your arms are strong. which is a good thing.

Not being sarcastic - I'm in agreement with your point and I'm humbled by your achievements in the strength world. I just think it bears mentioning that it helps (in avoiding damage) to be big. I'd still be in the hospital if that guy hit me.

Franco Columbu, not a large man but certainly freakishly strong, tells a story of working under a rusty old car and having the motor drop on his chest, which he pressed off his chest and slid himself out from under the car with next to nothing by way of injury. It's just a great thing to have strong, dense bones, strong muscles, tendons, and ligaments.
 
Oh, I see.. This is one of those threads were everyone (including Rip who has a gut), tries to argue why we should skip the situps.

I think situp's suck. Captains chair is much better.
 
'That having been said, the 90-degree bench may well be one of the best tools for training the abs in any
gym. The movement is short, and while not isometric, short is a better version of spinal flexion than
the extreme ROMs typical of the again-popular Roman Chair situp. (They have always hurt my back,
and they appear to be an excellent way to so thoroughly disrupt the rectus bellies that rhabdomyolysis
has been frequently reported in association with their abuse. So if you do them be sure that you control
the movement by keeping the tempo slow.) The much shorter ROM provided by the 90-degree bench
more closely mimics the actual function of the abs, while allowing increasingly heavy weight to be used
safely.'

is he just suggesting to do RC situps without a full ROM?
 
Oh, I see.. This is one of those threads were everyone (including Rip who has a gut), tries to argue why we should skip the situps.

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Would trunk-flexion exercises be beneficial to BJJers? Many times I find myself with an opponent in my closed guard (Arona, to be exact) doing sit-ups to break posture/dig for a gnarly guillotine.
 
Would trunk-flexion exercises be beneficial to BJJers? Many times I find myself with an opponent in my closed guard (Arona, to be exact) doing sit-ups to break posture/dig for a gnarly guillotine.

LOL

I found them to be useful but im weak at lifting (just breached the 308 for the squat)
 
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