Mark Rippetoe Article on "Abs"

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by zere0wn, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. zere0wn

    zere0wn Green Belt

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    Starting Strength

    "Since the basic nature of correct ab function is isometric, the exercises in which the abs perform this function will provide exercises for the abs as well. This may seem childishly apparent, yet virtually every strength coach adds extra concentric/eccentric ab work to the program anyway. The thinking must be that just squatting, deadlifting, pressing, cleaning, snatching, chins, and barbell curls
     
  2. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    I already responded to this in the pub, but I'll repost.

    I'm not sure I see much of a contradiction, at least not with my own beliefs. I think the main points are (1) Core work can be used to supplement the main lifts, but it's not necessary to include it all the time. (I'd say how much extra core work someone will benefit from will vary from person to person, and will depend on individual weak links.) (2) Core work where the spine goes through flexion can result in back pain, and it doesn't mimic how the core behaves in the main lifts. I agree entirely with this, and I think there's better carryover to the main lifts with core exercises that keep the spine neutral. (3) That additional core work isn't beneficial for beginners, but can, at times, be beneficial for lifters with more experience.
     
  3. enright3060

    enright3060 Brown Belt

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    I don't understand the point of this thread.

    Do you have a question or is this a "wit and wisdom of Rip" thread?
     
  4. zere0wn

    zere0wn Green Belt

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    I thought it was an interesting read and figured I'd share....
     
  5. seau45

    seau45 Brown Belt

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    he does speak of weighted situps in his book, specifically roman chair situps
     
  6. enright3060

    enright3060 Brown Belt

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    Interesting how?

    Do you think what he is saying is strange? A good point? Crazy?

    Why do you find it interesting?
     
  7. TrainingAdict

    TrainingAdict Orange Belt

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    My question is, if one strengthens their abs, will their squat / deadlift / bench / overhead also increase?
     
  8. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    If they're abs were the weak link, yes. Otherwise no.
     
  9. TrainingAdict

    TrainingAdict Orange Belt

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    How do we identify the abs as the weak point for say squats compared to all the other muscles involved.
     
  10. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Weak links can be identified in a few different ways. First, if somebody knowledgable watches your lifts, they may be able to tell, especially if your technique breaks down. Second, if there's something you really suck at. For example, if a few sets of hanging leg raises (or something else that's not particularly challenging) is particularly hard, and/or leaves you sore the next day, then it's probably a weak link. Third, if you feel something working especially hard during a lift, or it's especially sore afterwards. For example, if overhead presses leave your abs more sore than your pressing muscles.

    None of these is a perfect way figure out a weakpoint. But it can give you an idea of what you may need extra work, and if the extra work improves one of your main lifts, great. Otherwise, it's some other issue, and you need to try something else.
     
  11. FiveFeezy

    FiveFeezy Orange Belt

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    I find that adding core exercises really helps in being able to adequately brace my core during the big 4 lifts. When I get lazy and start leaving out the core exercises my gut gets lazy and feels like it could damn near bust open on heavy lifts.
     
  12. Switch

    Switch White Belt

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    I have a question- What does this mean for those of us that fight? Now I'm assuming situps help with taking body shots, but my trainer tells me to do them, so I do. Does heavy lifting negate the need for situps somewhat?
     
  13. VoodooPlata

    VoodooPlata Brown Belt

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    Yes, somewhat. But you just go ahead and try to tell a martial arts coach that situps and pushups are outdated. It's like they're paid for every BW exercise they get their students to do.
     
  14. NinjaBlack

    NinjaBlack Blue Belt

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    So is this more to say that consistant ab-work won't benefit your lifting, or saying that it can actually hurt you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  15. Indivdude

    Indivdude Blue Belt

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    I'd say that supplemental core work is just that. Supplemental. One doesn't have to do it but that it can help. Much like taking a multi when you have a balanced diet. It's not necessary but it can help if something's lacking.
     
  16. zx

    zx adventurer

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    Please explain why do you think so?
     
  17. JRT6

    JRT6 Black Belt

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    I think Tosa hit the nail on the head. If one is just training for the big lifts I don't think specific ab work is needed assuming it's not a weakness. However if one is training for sports then I think ab work is needed. I do my abs in cycles, a few weeks on and a few weeks off, and it's all I need to maintain my ability to do standing ab wheel rollouts etc.
     
  18. Ian Coe

    Ian Coe Silver Belt Professional Fighter

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    Agreed

    While the main lifts will strengthen the core, twisting motion exercises are required for most sports and not efficiently trained through the major lifts.

    Plus, I want sexy kick boxing muscles.
     
  19. Oblivian

    Oblivian Aging Platinum Member

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    I just responded in the pub, but I'll paste it here. This is my experience only and may not apply to others.

     
  20. cheez whiz

    cheez whiz Brown Belt

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    It's nice to see Starting Strength used to generate discussion rather than simply being taken as gospel.

    I feel I have to put in some ab work because I do specific work to strengthen my lower back, and I want to maintain some balance. I don't think I get enough incidental ab work from my other lifts. I can tell because, for example, I'm sore after doing a few sets of weighted decline situps.
     

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