Mark Hatmaker's ideas on what knuckles to connect with.

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by SportsScience, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. SportsScience

    SportsScience White Belt

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    In Mark Hatmakers books he gives specific advice to use your pinky, ring and middle finger knuckles when connecting with a punch. NOT your index and middle finger. He writes that you should also connect with your whole hand and not just your first knuckles.

    Now i have no idea if he is right. I have looked up some drawings of what the bones in the hand look like:

    http://www.halecliniconline.com/images/xray.jpg

    From that image i get the impression he could be on to something.

    These are the muscles:

    Bottom view. http://img.sparknotes.com/figures/E/eb57ee3c0bbce61d887722fc5931002b/muscles_of_the_hand_palmar.jpg

    Top view. http://www.daviddarling.info/images/hand_muscles.jpg

    Looking at the muscles the ones behind the index and middle fingers look alot bigger and therefore may make a difference.

    Any thoughts? Any studys anyone knows of?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  2. 34st

    34st White Belt

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    From what I know punch with the index and middle knuckle or you're in for a bad case of boxer's fracture. Trust me it isn't fun. This guy who makes hats may be right, but idrk
     
  3. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    I just PMed u my senior thesis on what part of the hand to hit with. In short, hitting with the first two knuckles increases risk of boxers knuckle. Hitting with the last two knuckles increases risk of boxer's fracture.

    Let me know what you think

    Also if someone knows how I could post the document or attach it or something, I would be happy to make it public. I'm not too good at the whole internet thing
     
  4. SportsScience

    SportsScience White Belt

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    Damned if you do, damned if you dont huh?
     
  5. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    Yeah. Its probably best to hit with the knuckles of the first two fingers and some of the proximal end of those two fingers (not so much that the wrist is bent while punching). BUt different people may find different things to work for their bodies.
     
  6. WJT225

    WJT225 White Belt

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    I'm by no means an expert boxer but when training stand up I always try to aim with my ring finger.
     
  7. ECS123

    ECS123 Purple Belt

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    Trust me, and read my signature. I am not a scientist, and prefer to comment from personal first hand (no pun intended) experience, as opposed to something that I read about in a book. Keep it on the larger index and middle finger knuckles. If you punch hard enough you can actually break the hand bones for the pinky and ring finger completely in half. I still have the stainless steel pins that they yanked out with surgical plyers, after everything healed up, to prove it.

    :icon_chee
     
  8. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    The standard "karate" type styles use first two knuckles with the index phalange in line with the radial bone. This has worked for these styles since their inception.

    I learned to use the bottom three knuckles in gung fu, both in the more esoteric styles in addition to wing chun. I also learned about that through Jack Dempsey boxing studies.

    Today I tend to hit with the whole fist with emphasis on the middle knuckle to bottom three for some punches, and the first two for others. Just depends on the punch and it's vector and it's target.

    Depending on how you want to go about doing things you can make both work...but know that without gloves on hitting with your knuckles on any part of your hand in general is likely to end with injury to your hand...especially hitting the harder parts of the skull and body (like the cranium or elbows).
     
  9. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    If you look at the kk guys a lot of them have issues with boxers knuckle
     
  10. Kozbot

    Kozbot Purple Belt

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    bare knuckle boxers punched with their last 3 in a vertical fist

    it puts those vulnerable knuckles in a better place to take the force


    but honestly it doesn't matter, in the heat and unpredictability of the fight, trying to punch with specific knuckles is very hard
     
  11. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

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    Check out what he talks about at 5:50

     
  12. IronFistDragon

    IronFistDragon White Belt

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    I almost always strike with the bottom three, I have hit faces in full contact, broken board and blocks this way. its solid, for me at least.
     
  13. HBbadb0y

    HBbadb0y Yellow Belt

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    Your fist is aligned with the bottom three knuckles. Try doing a fist push up with the bottom three, then the first two knuckles and tell me which feels more comfortable. I always try to land with the bottom three.
     
  14. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    Generally speaking, I'd say straight punches for me impact on the index and middle knuckle, whereas my hooks generally impact with the other 3. Uppercuts can go either way. I try not to worry about it too much, just keep my wrist aligned and fist clenched on impact.
     
  15. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    Not true. The hand at rest lines the third MC (middle finger) lines up with the radius. The reason knuckle push ups are easiest on the last three knuckles is because they stick out less, and thus create a flatter surface. THis is why boxer's knuckle (damage to the tissue below the knuckles) is most common on the index and middle knuckle (They stick out so smaller surface to strike increasing pressure on the knuckle)
     
  16. Adnan Adil

    Adnan Adil Yellow Belt

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    It seems that punching vertical could be a little safer way for the wrist and punching horizontal could be safer for the knuckles (because the punch should connect with the bigger knuckles). Punching horizontally it is very easy to connect with the little knuckles, too. Also the horizontal punch is very likely to land with the fingers first and after this with the knuckles.
     

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