Marciano not the GOAT?

[S.B.**]

Howdy Y'all

Im really quite new to the world of boxing, and really enjoy reading the wealth of info in the "HW GOAT" thread. Plenty of names/ legends Im discovering

My question, as a self confessed neophyte is: Why wouldnt Rocky Marciano feature higher on a lot of top lists, when he went undefeated? I know these kind of things are speculative and ambiguous but to me undefeated would have to equal GOAT.

Was the calibre of competition simply not there in his era??

This aint trolling and Id love a point in thedirection of a site where I could see some of the older era fights

Thanks!!!

 

[Ron Powell Jr]

as far as i'm concerned it's either dempsey or sweet pea.

Note: i am irrationally biased.

 

[chino0503]

well... he is from a era when the mob literally ran boxing.... and blacks were treated as unequal.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Well, generally the criteria of GOAT involves longevity and quality of opposition.

I think Marciano gets underrated by most, but he did have a relatively short span where he would be considered the king of the division.

 

[Greg House]

Most overrated hw ever

 

[Hagler]

1- mob factor
2- not the most technical fighter ever
3- biggest names he beat were over the hill, came from LHW or both
4- short era of dominance

That being said, he's a an all-time Top 10 HW.

 

[BR]

I thinks its because he beat guys who were over the hill. He's top 10 HW, but P4P, I'd say 35-40.

 

[Matt Hilton]

Howdy Y'all

Im really quite new to the world of boxing, and really enjoy reading the wealth of info in the "HW GOAT" thread. Plenty of names/ legends Im discovering

My question, as a self confessed neophyte is: Why wouldnt Rocky Marciano feature higher on a lot of top lists, when he went undefeated? I know these kind of things are speculative and ambiguous but to me undefeated would have to equal GOAT.

Was the calibre of competition simply not there in his era??

This aint trolling and Id love a point in thedirection of a site where I could see some of the older era fights

Thanks!!!

The guys he beat were over the hill, past their prime. He deserves credit for his toughness, and being an undersized heavyweight. But skillwise and accomplishment wise, I'd say its generous to have him even in the top 10 heavyweights of all time.

 

[ThirdPartyView]

The guys he beat were over the hill, past their prime. He deserves credit for his toughness, and being an undersized heavyweight. But skillwise and accomplishment wise, I'd say its generous to have him even in the top 10 heavyweights of all time.

Nah, he did beat a number of great fighters and you can give him credit for the Walcott & Moore wins (since they had aged better than, say, Charles and Louis did and Moore in particular was still a dominant LHW champion entering the fight).

 

[Levi_]

Well, I'll say this- Rocky fought much tougher competition than ANYONE named Buster, and this NEVER happened to him (mind you, mike is very young and in his prime here).​

 

[StillWill**]

Well, I'll say this- Rocky fought much tougher competition than ANYONE named Buster, and this NEVER happened to him (mind you, mike is very young and in his prime here).​

Nobody is claiming Mike is the best HW ever? I am very confused by your point.. it seems irrelevant

 

[YukisHeart]

In 1950, the Associated Press conducted a poll of sportswriters to name the greatest fighter of all-time, pound-for-pound, and Dempsey was the runaway winner, collecting 251 votes. Joe Louis finished a distant second with 109 votes; Henry Armstrong was third with 13. The sportswriters of the first half of the century named Dempsey as the greatest fighter they had ever seen.

As late as 1962, in the Dec 1962 Ring Magazine, a panel of 40 boxing writers tabbed Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Now, I'm not quoting this to big up Dempsey. I'm quoting it to help illustrate that, even by the lights of people who were around during the high points of Marciano's reign, he wasn't thought of as the GOAT. In fact, from what I can see, he seems to have climbed the ATG ranks as first-hand memories of him have faded, leaving only the very impressive paper record to go on.

I will say he was much slicker than a lot of people thought he was, though:

 

[Sharkey]

Marciano beat who he had to beat in the division at the time.

He beat contenders like LaStarza, Layne, Savold and Matthews before he won the title. Joe Louis too was highly ranked at the time being The Ring's #2 ranked contender and the NBA's choice as the only "logical contender" at the time to Ezzard Charles.

Marciano beat those guys, beat Walcott for the title, and then went on to defend it five times against fighters that were deemed the #1 contender at the time (Walcott, LaStarza, Charles x2 and Moore). The only fighter who wasn't the #1 ranked contender when Marciano faced him was Don Cockell, who sat in the #2 spot according to The Ring at the time of the bout.

 

[Astro Man]

Now, I'm not quoting this to big up Dempsey. I'm quoting it to help illustrate that, even by the lights of people who were around during the high points of Marciano's reign, he wasn't thought of as the GOAT. In fact, from what I can see, he seems to have climbed the ATG ranks as first-hand memories of him have faded, leaving only the very impressive paper record to go on.

I will say he was much slicker than a lot of people thought he was, though:

excellent video.