Law Man charged with rape of 10 year old after right wing called it fake news

[ShadowRun]

 

[Darkballs]

Adolescent pregnancy is not a medical condition, no doctor will put their neck at risk for a "maybe".

Don't try to make it about others when it could had been super easy to include rape victims or teenagers under the exception, that way it would be clear as fucking day.

This isn't about optics, if it was a 45 years old woman wanting to abort because of the high risk the AG wouldn't give a shit, but since the optics are terrible they are coming out with "well its obvious, despite the fact that its not.

Not to mention, this same shitbird election denying AG had this to say on Fox News about said doctor:

“We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end, including looking at her [medical] licensure if she failed to report,”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/13/indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764
Fox News then proceeded to blast a picture of said doctor for their viewers. A doctor, whom had already received death threats and threats to kidnap and rape her daughter from two years ago.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-girl-rape-doctor-bernard-kidnapping-barrett/

And of course the AG was completely wrong, and the doctor had reported the rape in accordance with state law.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...a-todd-rokita-dr-caitlin-bernard/65373626007/

So you've got an idiot AG threatening to prosecute her, being completely wrong about the facts, and helping spread her information to a national audience when she's already been the subject of death threats. And the conservatives here genuinely proclaim, "See, nothing to be concerned about, she totally could have just gone through with the procedure without any worry."

All of this just to avoid responsibility for shitty legislation.

 

[Zazen]

Hilarious considering people also came here to escape from religious tyranny yet he doesn't mention that.

 

[Zazen]

The doctor who performed the abortion is getting death threats. What a sick country.

 

[ShadowRun]

The doctor who performed the abortion is getting death threats. What a sick country.

I think anyone in national media news stories involving politics get death threats.. online anyways in person probably not. It’s sad though

 

[Rod1]

Not to mention, this same shitbird election denying AG had this to say on Fox News about said doctor:

“We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end, including looking at her [medical] licensure if she failed to report,”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/13/indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764
Fox News then proceeded to blast a picture of said doctor for their viewers. A doctor, whom had already received death threats and threats to kidnap and rape her daughter from two years ago.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-girl-rape-doctor-bernard-kidnapping-barrett/

And of course the AG was completely wrong, and the doctor had reported the rape in accordance with state law.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...a-todd-rokita-dr-caitlin-bernard/65373626007/

So you've got an idiot AG threatening to prosecute her, being completely wrong about the facts, and helping spread her information to a national audience when she's already been the subject of death threats. And the conservatives here genuinely proclaim, "See, nothing to be concerned about, she totally could have just gone through with the procedure without any worry."

All of this just to avoid responsibility for shitty legislation.

And of course the shitbirds in this thread are going to ignore the fact that the AG has LIED twice, the same AG they want doctors to put their lives at risk when deciding whether or not an abortion meets the exception.

 

[Rod1]

I think anyone in national media news stories involving politics get death threats.. online anyways in person probably not. It’s sad though

Well, when you have partisan hacks believing everything these scummy politicians say at face value you have these kind of issues.

Is it too hard to say "Welp i guess the law needs some fixing, we are going to implement an exception for teenagers and rape victims" nope, they can't be wrong so they will slander others.

 

[ShadowRun]

Well, when you have partisan hacks believing everything these scummy politicians say at face value you have these kind of issues.

Is it too hard to say "Welp i guess the law needs some fixing, we are going to implement an exception for teenagers and rape victims" nope, they can't be wrong so they will slander others.

Are you talking about the AG who said the law allows her to get an abortion in Ohio ?

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Adolescent pregnancy is not a medical condition, no doctor will put their neck at risk for a "maybe".

Don't try to make it about others when it could had been super easy to include rape victims or teenagers under the exception, that way it would be clear as fucking day.

This isn't about optics, if it was a 45 years old woman wanting to abort because of the high risk the AG wouldn't give a shit, but since the optics are terrible they are coming out with "well its obvious" despite the fact that its not.

It doesn't specifically say tubular pregnancy (the left's latest complaint) either, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

It's not a teen, it's a f'n child.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Not the first time people have falsely confessed for fear of trial.

That doesn't change what I wrote = Ohio's law ask for an approximate fetal age and allows for abortion with a fetal heartbeat in cases of serious health consequences to the mother.

In this case the original dr gave a very specific fetal age and one that I maintain would have been undistinguishable from a few days less. I can only assume it was done to create a narrative.

Right now, in Indiana, which currently has far less restrictive laws than Ohio on the matter, the AG has publicly said he's going after the doctor that performed the abortion, basically trying to find anything that can stick. The provider in Ohio was smart to forward it to Indiana, regardless of what they might say after the fact. If you want to have faith in extremists and prosecutors, who tend to care more about conviction rates than justice, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Darkballs]

Are you talking about the AG who said the law allows her to get an abortion in Ohio ?

Yes.

The same AG who went on Fox News and said he intended to investigate the doctor for failing to report the rape, when the doctor actually had done so.
The same AG who failed to explain how, under Ohio's very vague law, this girl, (whom his office never had performed a medical examination on, so it's unclear how he is certain she would meet the medical necessity required to be exempt) would not have any who helped her avoid prosecution.
And the same AG who is currently lying about how Trump had the election stolen from him.

Can you see how someone would be skeptical, and not willing to risk significant jail time by helping the poor girl? Can you not be skeptical when the AG only came out with his guarantee of it being legal, after the story broke and it was no longer and issue and his office was facing a public backlash for such a terrible law in the first place?

It boggles the mind that anyone would recommend the doctor just go for it, and trust the liars in charge, while simultaneously failing to actually quote the clear exception they think exists.

Either admit it's a poorly drafted law, or point to us the language you think guarantees a non-prosecution. Because as a former ADA, I can tell you that vagueness exists. It isn't clear that a 10-year old, just by virtue of being so young, would clearly fall within the medical necessity exception. Here is the relevant portion of the law, and one that the doctor would have to argue around to avoid going to jail:
"Medical necessity" means a medical condition of a pregnant woman that, in the reasonable judgment of the physician who is attending the woman, so complicates the pregnancy that it necessitates the immediate performance or inducement of an abortion.

As a former prosecutor, I could see one easily arguing both the "so complicates," and "immediate," language of that law. And all I would have to do, is put a different doctor on the stand to argue otherwise. Any doctor that was willing to say that the girl, despite being 10, may have been able to carry the fetus to term. Or, even if there was doubt, that the risk was not "immediate." And if a prosecutor was so inclined, then a doctor who went ahead with the procedure has her fate left in the hands of the jury.

You cannot reasonably expect all the people involved to take such a risk, especially given how dishonest said AG has been throughout this process. So instead of asking the citizens of Ohio to just trust him, how about concede that the law needs to be re-written, and maybe include more clear language. It need be no more complicated than a line like, "A medical necessity shall be presumed to exist if the mother is less than X-years of age."

 

[Bob Gray]

Not to mention, this same shitbird election denying AG had this to say on Fox News about said doctor:

“We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end, including looking at her [medical] licensure if she failed to report,”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/13/indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764
Fox News then proceeded to blast a picture of said doctor for their viewers. A doctor, whom had already received death threats and threats to kidnap and rape her daughter from two years ago.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-girl-rape-doctor-bernard-kidnapping-barrett/

And of course the AG was completely wrong, and the doctor had reported the rape in accordance with state law.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...a-todd-rokita-dr-caitlin-bernard/65373626007/

So you've got an idiot AG threatening to prosecute her, being completely wrong about the facts, and helping spread her information to a national audience when she's already been the subject of death threats. And the conservatives here genuinely proclaim, "See, nothing to be concerned about, she totally could have just gone through with the procedure without any worry."

All of this just to avoid responsibility for shitty legislation.

The AG said they were gathering evidence and that theyd look into revoking the medical license if the doctor failed to report. What's wrong with this stance?

The AG didn't take the position that the doctor failed to report, at least in the quote you're using. Only mentioned that evidence was being gathered and they'd look into revoking the license if they failed to report it. Isn't that what you want then to do?

Note: I'm on my phone and can't really watch clips and whatnot, so if there's something Im missing, fair enough. I'm just going by the quote.

 

[mkess101]

Adolescent pregnancy is not a medical condition, no doctor will put their neck at risk for a "maybe".

Don't try to make it about others when it could had been super easy to include rape victims or teenagers under the exception, that way it would be clear as fucking day.

This isn't about optics, if it was a 45 years old woman wanting to abort because of the high risk the AG wouldn't give a shit, but since the optics are terrible they are coming out with "well its obvious" despite the fact that its not.

I'd say rewrite the law to be more specific sure...but FFS this isn't a 15 year old we're talking about. I have a daughter who was 10 not all that long ago. This poor girl who was raped had likely JUST started menstruation (as in, within a few months of this happening probably) and was a CHILD. Not a teen, not a pre teen, a little girl. There's absolutely a very big inherent risk in someone that young trying to deliver a baby. Again, I'm all for making the law more specific to cover stuff like this but this is not a "maybe".

 

[Rod1]

Are you talking about the AG who said the law allows her to get an abortion in Ohio ?

Yes

 

[Rod1]

FFS this isn't a 15 year old we're talking about. I have a daughter who was 10 not all that long ago.

My wife's mom died from preeclampsia, she was over 40 years old, there is an inherent risk with adolescent and geriatric pregnancies but these are not medically recognized as medical conditions.

This poor girl who was raped had likely JUST started menstruation (as in, within a few months of this happening probably) and was a CHILD. Not a teen, not a pre teen, a little girl. There's absolutely a very big inherent risk in someone that young trying to deliver a baby.

Medically and biologically, adolescence is between puberty and adulthood, that's why its called teenage pregnancy, most 10 years old are children, but some of them are adolescents. There is absolutely no reason why there can be an exception for rape, and that would cover all children because of statutory rape laws.

Again, I'm all for making the law more specific to cover stuff like this

So does everyone except Ohio Republicans

but this is not a "maybe".

Acording to the text of the law it is a maybe, the text of the law only allows exceptions under medically diagnosed conditions and emergencies, adolescent pregnancy is neither.

This was agreed by both the medical community and the legislative commission, the word of an AG is irrelevant, specially when such AG would use his office as a political weapon.

 

[Rod1]

It doesn't specifically say tubular pregnancy (the left's latest complaint) either, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Man, i have repeated this like 100000x in this thread

Exception specifies MEDICALLY RECOGNIZED CONDITIONS

Adolescent pregnancy = not medically recognized condition.

tubular pregnancy = medically recognized condition.

And you still need to get permission for the second.

 

[Rod1]

It's not a teen, it's a f'n child.

the term child pregnancy doesn't exists and so its not a medically recognized condition either.

 

[mkess101]

My wife's mom died from preeclampsia, she was over 40 years old, there is an inherent risk with adolescent and geriatric pregnancies but these are not medically recognized as medical conditions.



Medically and biologically, adolescence is between puberty and adulthood, that's why its called teenage pregnancy, most 10 years old are children, but some of them are adolescents. There is absolutely no reason why there can be an exception for rape, and that would cover all children because of statutory rape laws.



So does everyone except Ohio Republicans



Acording to the text of the law it is a maybe, the text of the law only allows exceptions under medically diagnosed conditions and emergencies, adolescent pregnancy is neither.

This was agreed by both the medical community and the legislative commission, the word of an AG is irrelevant, specially when such AG would use his office as a political weapon.

I get what you're saying...technically from a legal standpoint. In theory the doctor could have been punished. In reality the chances are zero. The fallout would be nuclear and absolute political suicide for the AG. And even if that's an appointed position, there's no way someone in the public eye would do that to themselves. And in fact there's a decent chance they'd face lawsuits for defamation etc for pursuing it given the circumstances.

Again, I'm not saying you aren't technically right. You are. I was more speaking in what would actually happen.

 

[Rod1]

I get what you're saying...technically from a legal standpoint. In theory the doctor could have been punished. In reality the chances are zero.

So your argument is that the doctor should perform a FELONY and hope that there won't be any prosecution because of political backlash? man that's as stupid as it get, any normal person would simply deny service than risk that fucking mess.

The fallout would be nuclear and absolute political suicide for the AG. And even if that's an appointed position, there's no way someone in the public eye would do that to themselves. And in fact there's a decent chance they'd face lawsuits for defamation etc for pursuing it given the circumstances.

I don't know what you do for a living, but if a client told you to commit a felony im pretty sure you would say no.

Again, I'm not saying you aren't technically right. You are. I was more speaking in what would actually happen.

Sure but put yourself in the shoes of the doctor

Option A:

Commit a felony, hope that you don't get prosecuted by the fundies because your case may get national attention and the AG would not commit politically

Option B:

Tell the patient to find another doctor or recommend having an abortion out of State.

 

[mkess101]

So your argument is that the doctor should perform a FELONY and hope that there won't be any prosecution because of political backlash? man that's as stupid as it get, any normal person would simply deny service than risk that fucking mess.



I don't know what you do for a living, but if a client told you to commit a felony im pretty sure you would say no.



Sure but put yourself in the shoes of the doctor

Option A:

Commit a felony, hope that you don't get prosecuted by the fundies because your case may get national attention and the AG would not commit politically

Option B:

Tell the patient to find another doctor or recommend having an abortion out of State.

I wasn't commenting on what the doctor should/shouldn't do. My comment was extremely narrow in scope, and maybe I didn't make it clear enough what I was saying. My point was that if, IF that doctor had chosen to perform the abortion there is zero chance she'd have faced any actual repercussions. Not that she should have, etc.

I hope that makes it more clear what I'm saying. On a forum, my commentary here seems a little clunky because I guess it doesn't add a ton in terms of practicality in the situation. It was more an off the cuff remark as though it was being discussed in person.