maltodextrin question

[Monger]

I put 2 scoops of protein in my drink and 1 scoop of dextrin. Am I putting too much protein? It's a total of 52 grams of protein. Should I use the opposite? 2 scoops of dextrin and 1 scoop of protein?

If your goal is recovery and weight gain... that would probably be better, yes. Keep in mind though that maltadextrin weighs more than protein. I think it's approx. 30% more. So 1 scoop of protein might be 30g but 1 scoop of maltadextrin would be closer to 40g. Jusy FYI. Having a scale is a good idea if you want exact numbers.

 

[joshetc]

The general consensus throughout the community, regardless of ratios, is more carbs than protein. I have yet to see someone recommend less carbs than a 2:1 ratio (except obviously the people that don't recommend carbs at all, which is stupid for anyone that isn't cutting, and even some that are, really.)

 

[ninjajesus]

If your goal is recovery and weight gain... that would probably be better, yes. Keep in mind though that maltadextrin weighs more than protein. I think it's approx. 30% more. So 1 scoop of protein might be 30g but 1 scoop of maltadextrin would be closer to 40g. Jusy FYI. Having a scale is a good idea if you want exact numbers.

Oh yeah I didn't think about that. It does seem denser.
I just scoop from the protein and then take that same scoop and get the dextrin. My goal isn't to necessarily gain weight, I just want to get stronger.
So if I'm using 2 scoops of protein I need to be using 4 scoops or maybe 3 of dextrin? That's kind of a lot.

 

[Monger]

Oh yeah I didn't think about that. It does seem denser.
I just scoop from the protein and then take that same scoop and get the dextrin. My goal isn't to necessarily gain weight, I just want to get stronger.
So if I'm using 2 scoops of protein I need to be using 4 scoops or maybe 3 of dextrin? That's kind of a lot.

Bottom line is this...

I would not consume more than .8g of carbs per kg of BW post workout. More than that has been shown to have very strong diminishing returns. So, take how much you weigh, divide that by 2.2 (assuming you're using pounds), then multiply that by .8.

Get a good guess on how many carbs are in a scoop. If you're using a somewhat standard scoop, it's probably 70cc. That will be appox. 40g of carbs or 30g of protein.

You don't need a shit load of protein during or after you're workout if you're eating right all day long.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

Monger - thanks for all your contributions during this discussion. Like Joshetc, I've been following the 0.8/0.4/kg rule. I kind of agree with Joshetc to an extent as like him I struggle to get a PWO meal for at least an hour after training but it makes sense that if you are feeding your muscles both pre and during WO then need for PWO drinks is less required. I wonder how many others were/are still following the original guidelines?. Also, is the need for High GI in the immediate PWO period irrelevant since the depletion is not as severe? - hope that makes sense.

If you could post a link to the article then that would be really nice to read. Thanks.

 

[ninjajesus]

Bottom line is this...

I would not consume more than .8g of carbs per kg of BW post workout. More than that has been shown to have very strong diminishing returns. So, take how much you weigh, divide that by 2.2 (assuming you're using pounds), then multiply that by .8.

Get a good guess on how many carbs are in a scoop. If you're using a somewhat standard scoop, it's probably 70cc. That will be appox. 40g of carbs or 30g of protein.

You don't need a shit load of protein during or after you're workout if you're eating right all day long.

So that would be 68g of carbs I need. So 1 and a half scoops of dextrin should do it.
And I should get half that in protein?

Thanks, I didn't realize carbs were THAT important. I bet a lot of people are neglecting it.

 

[Monger]

Also, is the need for High GI in the immediate PWO period irrelevant since the depletion is not as severe? - hope that makes sense.

I don't think it's as beneficial as I once did, especially if you're consuming a carb/protein drink during your workout. Ha ha... what's funny is I remember arguing with STWAcoach about this but I now agree with him. At this point, I'd say just eat a WF meal with some carbs and you'll be good to go. Like I said above, the exception might be if you're looking to gain a lot of weight. Again, this assumes you're using a drink during your training.

If you could post a link to the article then that would be really nice to read. Thanks.

I assume you're referring to the interview with Berardi that I mentioned. I started a thread for it here...

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=719227&highlight=berardi+interview

He also did an article back in July of 2006 which seems to be when he changed his views on WO nutrition. It's in the link below and seems to match up pretty well with the content in the interview.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/advanced_workout_nutrition.htm

 

[Monger]

And I should get half that in protein?

It doesn't have to be exactly half but that's what I would do. Just estimate. Don't neglect the rest of your diet though. That's what will really make a difference and you'll get the most out of WO nutrition as well.

 

[ninjajesus]

It doesn't have to be exactly half but that's what I would do. Just estimate. Don't neglect the rest of your diet though. That's what will really make a difference and you'll get the most out of WO nutrition as well.

Problem is, I can go up to wal-mart and get protein for cheap. Dextrin however I have to order online. Kind of annoying I can't find anywhere that sells it. I got a 2 pound can for like 12 dollars.
I could get a big thing of dextrose, but I heard that can make you gain weight if you take that after a workout.

 

[Monger]

I struggle to get a PWO meal for at least an hour after training

I missed this the first time. Just to clarify, waiting an hour or even two is probably fine as long as WO nutrition was used during training. This is my latest opinion... I'm sure others may disagree.

 

[Monger]

Problem is, I can go up to wal-mart and get protein for cheap. Dextrin however I have to order online. Kind of annoying I can't find anywhere that sells it. I got a 2 pound can for like 12 dollars.
I could get a big thing of dextrose, but I heard that can make you gain weight if you take that after a workout.

Ok, I've got to take off soon, so if there are follow up questions it may be awhile before I reply...

You can order maltodextrin from numerous places on the internet for ~2.30lb plus shipping. You also may be able to get it at some health food stores. I bought it at a "Better Health" grocery store in the past... and it's no where near $12 for 2lbs... That price is ridiculous and I have know idea why you're paying so much for it.

OD'ing (for lack of a better term) on ANY carb will add fat PWO. Dextrose and maltodextrin have nearly identical GI's and digestion times. You won't notice a difference using one or the other. Most people like to combine them because there is some evidence that shows using multiple forms of carbs to have benefits over a single form. If you can get dextrose cheap... I'd just use it.

 

[erco]

NOW Foods labels their maltodextrin as "Carbo Gain." It's pretty much everywhere.

 

[joshetc]

Problem is, I can go up to wal-mart and get protein for cheap. Dextrin however I have to order online. Kind of annoying I can't find anywhere that sells it. I got a 2 pound can for like 12 dollars.
I could get a big thing of dextrose, but I heard that can make you gain weight if you take that after a workout.

I highly recommend ordering it online, you can find it for less than $3/lb at bulknutrition.com and trueprotein.com. You could also check out something like cytogainer or make your own mix on trueprotein.com. You can get a tub of cytogainer from http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=663

It is about $33+ shipping a tub (I think they have $5 flat rate shipping, if you order more than one) 1 tub has 72 scoops, they recommend taking 4 scoops per serving, but I recommend 3. That would give you 63g carbs and 40g protein per serving, for a total of 24 servings, and if you only get 1 tub for $38 shipped comes to about $1.60 a serving or $1.48 a serving if you buy two tubs. Calculate it out with your maltodextrin / protein home formula and you'll probably find your way is more expensive. I believe the protein in cytogainer is a higher quality protein than most walmart protein, too.

 

[ninjajesus]

You can order maltodextrin from numerous places on the internet for ~2.30lb plus shipping. You also may be able to get it at some health food stores. I bought it at a "Better Health" grocery store in the past... and it's no where near $12 for 2lbs... That price is ridiculous and I have know idea why you're paying so much for it.

Well that was plus shipping. The thing is only 6 dollars, it's the damn shipping that gets you.
And that's the first time I'd ever bought it. The total was as much as I pay for protein, so I didn't think it was that bad.

OD'ing (for lack of a better term) on ANY carb will add fat PWO. Dextrose and maltodextrin have nearly identical GI's and digestion times. You won't notice a difference using one or the other. Most people like to combine them because there is some evidence that shows using multiple forms of carbs to have benefits over a single form. If you can get dextrose cheap... I'd just use it.

I can get dextrose from that same website I got the dextrin from for about 27$ for a 15lb bucket.
That's better than what I got for the dextrin.

I highly recommend ordering it online, you can find it for less than $3/lb at bulknutrition.com and trueprotein.com. You could also check out something like cytogainer or make your own mix on trueprotein.com. You can get a tub of cytogainer from http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=663

It is about $33+ shipping a tub (I think they have $5 flat rate shipping, if you order more than one) 1 tub has 72 scoops, they recommend taking 4 scoops per serving, but I recommend 3. That would give you 63g carbs and 40g protein per serving, for a total of 24 servings, and if you only get 1 tub for $38 shipped comes to about $1.60 a serving or $1.48 a serving if you buy two tubs. Calculate it out with your maltodextrin / protein home formula and you'll probably find your way is more expensive. I believe the protein in cytogainer is a higher quality protein than most walmart protein, too.

Do you know if they accept paypal? That's the only way I can pay right now. The website I got the dextrin from accepts paypal, which is supplementcentral.com. I just did a google search to find it. It's a good website as far as I can tell.

 

[bayboy4life]

Do you guys think we really need all of that or is that the supplement companies trying to get us to consume more?

 

[Vedic]

I don't think that much is needed.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

I don't think it's as beneficial as I once did, especially if you're consuming a carb/protein drink during your workout. Ha ha... what's funny is I remember arguing with STWAcoach about this but I now agree with him. At this point, I'd say just eat a WF meal with some carbs and you'll be good to go. Like I said above, the exception might be if you're looking to gain a lot of weight. Again, this assumes you're using a drink during your training.



I assume you're referring to the interview with Berardi that I mentioned. I started a thread for it here...

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=719227&highlight=berardi+interview

He also did an article back in July of 2006 which seems to be when he changed his views on WO nutrition. It's in the link below and seems to match up pretty well with the content in the interview.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/advanced_workout_nutrition.htm

Thanks for the reply and links Monger. I have much thinking to do! :icon_chee
Cheers.

 

[joshetc]

Do you guys think we really need all of that or is that the supplement companies trying to get us to consume more?

It has nothing to do with supplements. I really don't consider plain protein and carbs supplements. Sure, you can get fancy and shit, but these are macronutrients.

I don't think bulknutrition takes paypal, but they do take checks or money orders (I think they are like $.50 for a moneyorder at just about anywhere, I was like 13 the last time I bought one, though) There are a lot of other good sites, I'm sure you can find one that takes paypal.