Maintaining Side Control on Stronger/Bigger Wrestler

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by wenispinkle, Oct 14, 2005.

  1. wenispinkle

    wenispinkle Skankin' It Easy...

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    ive been having trouble with a certain wrestler at my gym, who outweighs me by quite alot and has much more strength than me to match. we were doing a drill where my job was to maintain side control with an over/under grip, and he would just explode his hips up and roll me. it started to get very frustrating. however, he did have to crossface me to the point where his arm was practically extended, and i saw quite a few chances for armbars that i didnt take cause we werent supposed to be trying to sub.

    so do you guys have any pointers for holding down side control on a larger, stronger opponent? would i be better off using a mount or knee on belly?
     
  2. dapunisher

    dapunisher Guest

    I have this problem sometimes, im only way about 170lbs on a 6'1" frame, i'll get side mount on some of my teams bigger boys, and its plike they just do a bench press and shove me off.

    The thing is whenevr they do this shit there is some type of submisson or position advancement open, you just got work at it so you'll key in on the opportunities and take them when they're given.
     
  3. wenispinkle

    wenispinkle Skankin' It Easy...

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    yeah that was exactly how i felt, just like i was getting benched and bucked off. im 5'11, 160-165.
     
  4. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    I can tell you what works for me.

    First, remember that you don't have to lock down in drills like these. If you do so against a bigger opponent he'll roll you right away. So, in otherwords, don't just clamp on and hold on for dear life. Be fluid. Adjust and adapt.

    Remember that you have hands that you can post out if he's trying to buck you that direction. Just, very quickly, stick your arm straight out and post your hand on the mat. Get your hand back in quick as he moves, but then post again if he tries to bridge that way again.

    Also remember your legs can move. You can scissor them ala Kesa Gatame or Ushiro Kesa Gatame as needed, then scoot back into your required side mount. You can do this stuff and still technically be in side mount.

    If you need to: briefly scoot around to north/south, then back into your side mount.

    Lower your hips when the pin feels pretty solid. Otherwise, if he's still squirming around, keep them low, but not so low that you restrict your own movement.

    Your head is a fifth post.

    I have a helluva' time with full mount against big opponents. You may have better luck with it, but it's not a good "big guy" pin for me.

    Knee on belly is good.
     
  5. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    ya i agree,
    control doest mean hold someone down in a pin.
    control can mean regulate
    so you can regulate their explosion, and switch to a temporary position and then go back to
    side.

    be heavy & sticky, to slow them down enough to make their movements predictable to you,
     
  6. wenispinkle

    wenispinkle Skankin' It Easy...

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    thanks alot guys for the replies
     
  7. Flibb

    Flibb Uwe Boll fan

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    I have that all the time. I go for the mount usually because if i get rolled over i have at least guard.
     
  8. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    the mount can be tough to hold especially against a grappler,
    against a guy non grappler, and strikes allowed,
    you are in GREAT position.

    but other than that...... its almost a position of attrition.
     
  9. RizRan

    RizRan Guest

    Fall to headlock positon when they go for the bench then just transfer back to side after. Couture does this alot
     
  10. Travis Trayer

    Travis Trayer Amateur Fighter

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    So this is no gi right?
     
  11. wenispinkle

    wenispinkle Skankin' It Easy...

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    yes, no gi
     
  12. Mirada

    Mirada Brown Belt

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    Go under their hips and grab the shorts on or around the far ass-cheek area.


    That'll keep them from rolling to their belly and give you solid control. Of course sometimes it's illegal to grab the shorts, so you probably should try not to get caught.


    Also, use your shoulder to turn their face away from you, so that their only option to turn is away, giving up the back.
     
  13. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    i guess the question is are u a submission grappler
    or a self defense person?
    as a sg, you can keep attacking, end up in mount, attack, get rolled to guard
    noproblem keep attacking.

    as a self defense person, your primary purpose is not to attack, its not
    football, you gotta attack to score, it's all defense. so even in a good position,
    you want to defend holding the position, if they OVER committ to escape
    then it can open a chance for you to finish them,
    but in MMA sport, fighters will wait to be stood back up, if the guy is just
    playing defensive on top.
     
  14. wenispinkle

    wenispinkle Skankin' It Easy...

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    my goal would obviously be to submit him....its just the drill didnt call for it. i think i would have been much more comfortable had i had the option to armbar (as i said, i saw many opportunities), or switch to knee on belly or the mount (he never even put his leg up, most likely because the drill did not call for me to mount him or get the knee on belly)

    the only attacking i was allowed to do was the choke if he gave up his back, which i did get once. i had to triangle his body from behind because i was coming so close to losing his back, simply because he was rolling and thrashing around so much, banging my head on the mats over and over. id never felt the complete necessity to use a body triangle just to keep someones back before that.

    this guy is making me a better grappler.
     
  15. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    if your a submission grappler then you better have an awsome set up with mad control
    skills, or have lots of attacks with mad transition skills.
     
  16. Moving Shadow

    Moving Shadow You are entering my dark place

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    what mirada said, stuff your shoulder in the side of their face. if they can't turn their head towards you then they can't turn their body into you. so their only option is to turn away. don't fight it when they bridge and buck away, try 'float' on them and take their back.
     
  17. Coach Couzo

    Coach Couzo Orange Belt

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    Good advice, Bubble Boy.

    I walk around at 150 (5'8") and have the same difficulty with 'pinning' bigger boys from side mount. Coming from a wrestling background, I know wrestlers do not like looking up at the ceiling and will do anything to prevent it. I second Bubble Boy's post (hands, legs, head) recommendations and add an emphasis on transitioning to different positions (especially north-south). If your opponent is truly a wrestler (not a submission wrestler), he will not look for a half-guard/guard escape. Rather than try to pull guard, the wrestler will look to 'reverse' the position (this amounts to points in wrestling). What to do?
    Use your speed to move from one dominant top position to the next. In this particular drill, go from side-mount to north-south to side-mount on the other side. If your cardio is up to par, the wrestler will either fatigue from adjusting to your re-positioning (and your weight, as small as it may be) or give you an obvious submission out of frustration.

    Hope this helps.
     
  18. batman69

    batman69 Purple Belt

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    you can also see if you can get away with this move. i just did this to a wrestler at a tournament i was in. i didn't feel like fighting to keep him on his back at one point. so as he got to his knees i got around the side of him, wrapped my arms around him, and pulled him over to take his back. it's a move we do a lot in practice so it flowed very well.
     
  19. Coleman

    Coleman White Belt

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    The only suggestion I have is goto scarf position. I've always found that it is harder to escape from scarf than side mount and its easier to mount an attack from scarf I think as well.

    I'm fairly strong for my size (155lbs) and a lot of people underestimate me on the ground. With a good strong bridge and roll with some bench pressing, its not hard at all to escape from side mount IMO. I would just try for different positions.
     
  20. Steeltwo

    Steeltwo Green Belt

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    we did those a long time ago in a hold down while the 270lber was still going to class.


    not to sound retarded, but I was like water.

    he'd push, i'd partially deflect and parry his bench press by turning sideways, or making my shoulders not even, causing more problems for his stablizer muscles to try and control me.


    after getting throw off the first two times, I figured
    he can't throw me off so well if I am not fully there.
     

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