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Magic Johnson top 5?

Discussion in 'Sports Bar' started by PRESIDENT TRUMP, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. THE MARTIAN MCGA

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    With all the Kobe threads recently, I've seen Magic as high as # 2 on some idiots lists. I'm curious to what makes him so high on all time lists?

    Obviously i was too young to watch him play live, but I've seen full games on YouTube.

    Magic was a phenomenal floor general, amazing playmaker and efficient scorer.

    His numbers weren't obscene. He averaged 19/12/8 over a career. He played in a weak era, and won numerous chips. Chips that weren't as prestigious as they are now.

    Larry bird averaged 25/6/10 on similar efficiency. Why is he usually multiple notches below magic on most people's All Time List?

    Kobe average 25/5/5 in a much tougher era, and won as many chips.

    Kobe is widely considered a much better defender.

    What makes Magic better than Bird, Kobe, Shaq, hakeem, Duncan, LeBron, ????
     
  2. THE MARTIAN MCGA

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  3. faustian BRUTAL 5-4 Platinum Member

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    Magic was a system player, a product of Rat's brilliance and multiple HOF teammates

    Also

    timestamped
     
  4. Cold187um Brown Belt

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    For me Magic is 4-6 depending on the day and the argument being had
    1.Kareem
    2.MJ
    3.Wilt
    4.Kobe
    5.Magic
    6. Bron
    7.Duncan
    8.Shaq
    9.Bird
    10.Hakeem
    Magic goes over Bird because of head to head titles, overall titles and IMO we only got 5 years of peak Larry(83-88)before he fucked his back.
    Magic over Lebron based on titles right now, he'd be behind Bron if Bron had 1 or 2 more rings.Its silly to nitpick all time greats but to me Magic is more of a team winner. IMO Lebron would've won more if he focused one on thing instead being an amazing jack of all trades. He fills the statline up but I think he'd be better served if he just went for 45/game and let the 1/4/5s do their jobs.
    Kobe over Lebron on titles..........and Im a Kobe stan so maybe my opinion is skewed a bit lol.
     
  5. Zoolander Purple Belt

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    Much too much emphasis on titles imo. Team game & if you play in an era with a historically great team your ring count will suffer. Bron is simply a better player than Magic & Kobe. So are Hakeem, Shaq, & Duncan imo. Love Magic, but he basically excelled on one side of the ball. Someone like Hakeem who is historically great on both ends of the court deserves more love in these debates. Lebron is basically the upgraded version of Magic, so there's no way I can give Magic the nod there.
     
  6. Cold187um Brown Belt

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    I can agree with that, thats why my 4-6 change. After the top 3 its basically nitpicking where to rank so I really go by ranking at position and I lean more towards small ball .

    Hakeem was phenomenal at both ends and hes right where he should be, top 3-4 Center of all time because hes not on Kareem or Wilts level. Can make the case hes above Shaq
    MJ is the 1 SG and Kobe is 2, Wade is probably 3
    SF Bron is clearly 1, Bird is 2 right now but Durant will be 2 and could probably be there now.
    Duncan is PF1
    and Magic is PG1, Zeke is PG2
     
  7. Zoolander Purple Belt

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    I'm going

    1. LBJ (I know I know lol)
    2. MJ
    3. Wilt
    4. Kareem
    5. Dream

    Lmk if yall lend any credence to this, but I think Magic & Bird are placed so high on these lists because of how much their rivalry & emergence meant to the growth of the NBA. For many of us these were our formative years as NBA fans, so I've been as guilty of it as anyone. But judging strictly by ability on the court, they might not belong in the top 10. I know that's a controversial thing to say, but give it consideration before you attack me lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  8. TheComebackKid Banned Banned

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    What is your methodology?
     
  9. Zoolander Purple Belt

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    I can't say I have any exact formula, but I do my upmost to consider everything. I like to take analytics into consideration in addition to team success, eye test, standard stats, awards, ability to impact the game on both ends, & how much they were able to separate themselves from their peers. PER, win shares, & VORP are things I look at on the analytics side.
     
  10. Mamba Mentality Sherdog Influencer Banned

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    His methodology is that Wilt could leap over 10 cars at a time while Arnold 69'd him.
     
  11. Zoolander Purple Belt

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    How old are you? Grow up. If you don't have anything pertinent to offer the discussion, why are you here?

    @PRESIDENT TRUMP what are you doing liking that shit? You're better than that!
     
  12. Revolver you sound poor

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    Magic is top just by resurrecting a dead league. Nba finals games used to be run on tape delay back then. Lol
     
  13. Mamba Mentality Sherdog Influencer Banned

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    [​IMG]

    This is the sports bar, if you need a safe space try the war room.

    Consider this a light ribbing of your opinion. Although your opinion isn't completely invalid, your top 5 needs to have a better mix of actually winning, personal accolades and passing the eye test.

    Having LeBron #1 is a troll job. Wilt would be a current day Dwert Howard (not prime) if he's lucky and Hakeem just doesn't have enough ships + only got them when Jordan was out.

    This sport is superstar focused. If you don't have a lot of ships and/or you have a lot of losses, your top 5 and maybe top 10 status is very very questionable.

    Also loling good at talking shit on Bird/Magics era when you have Wilt at #3 who played against milkmen and carpenters.
     
  14. Corona GOAT

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    Magic Ohnson(no j) is a top 5 point guard no doubt.
     
  15. TheComebackKid Banned Banned

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    I don't have a lot of respect for rankings that emphasize analytics and made up stats while minimizing team success. I like methedologies that prioritize winning or else why even play the game? We can just remove the playoffs and just plug everyones regular season stats into an algorithm and let the computer decides who the champions are.
     
  16. Zoolander Purple Belt

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    What I need is a discussion with knowledgeable basketball fans. I've got no interest in dealing with trolls or assholes. If you disagree with anything I say, we can discuss. If I'm proven wrong I'll be the first to acknowledge that. But don't do what's so typical of Sherdog. Trolling, being condescending, name calling, dick measuring. I've got nothing to prove here & no interest in dealing with any of that. I can talk hoops elsewhere.

    My top 5 doesn't need anything. Those who use rings as the key component in their GOAT rankings are lazy in my opinion. Not all ships are created equal & there's so much more to consider. But I won't put a player in my top 10 who hasn't won any. I do think rings must be considered.

    I never troll. I have Lebron #1 for a reason. We can discuss that if you'd like. Your Wilt comment is idiotic to be frank, but I think you're just trolling me again. In case you're not I'll respond...perhaps you have it in your mind that the human race has evolved more than it has in the past 60 years. It has not. What has evolved is the training, nutrition, facilities, equipment etc. If Wilt played today he would still be the most physically gifted player in the league. It would be up to him to learn to maximize that physicality in the modern NBA. & let me point out once again that Wilt is 4" taller than Dwight.

    Why did you read that paragraph as me talking shit on Magic & Bird? Magic was my favorite player in the 80s. I remember exactly where I was when my dad told me he had HIV. I didn't know what exactly HIV was lol, but I was crushed because I could tell it was bad. But objectively speaking, I think OP might have a point & I was giving my thoughts.

    Athletic 7' footers played basketball back then just as they do now. Why would a 7' athletic black man become an electrician? Honestly, why do you think tall athletic people didn't play basketball back then? What do you think they were doing?
     
  17. Mamba Mentality Sherdog Influencer Banned

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    Lmao. Way too sensitive.

    @Zoolander

    1. Don't care what you want. Deal with being bodied.

    2. I never said the key component is rings. Nice comprehension.

    3. The rest of your post (that i intelligently skipped through) is all anecdotal nonsense.

    Yes please make case for LeBron at #1. I hope it's better than your anecdotal make believe fairy tales of Wilt.

    I'll add in that if LeBron takes this Lakers squad all the way to a ship this year you may actually have a case.
     
  18. Zoolander Purple Belt

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    Not sensitive. Just an adult.

    1. Bodied? You haven't made any points & you skip over (or won't address) all of mine. Once again, you need to grow up.

    2. I wasn't sure what you were getting at with #2 tbh. You mentioned winning, accolades & eye test as if the guys in my top 5 don't have all 3. I assumed rings were the thing that mattered to you since the other 2 are more of a given. My fault for assuming.

    3. You seem like a real jerk bro. Why be a dick to someone for no reason? If I met you in real life I bet we'd get along great, so what is this that you're doing? & before you say I'm sensitive or whatever quip you have in store, be clear that what you say here doesn't affect me. But I think we as people should treat each other better. To me, that's important.

    I'm not going to discuss Lebron with you. That will get me nowhere.
     
  19. TheComebackKid Banned Banned

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    @Zoolander

    What is your reasoning behind putting Lebron above Jordan? From my perspective there is absolutely no case you can make. Jordan had significantly more team success, significantly more individual awards and accolades, significantly better statistics, significantly bigger impact on the sport/league, was a significantly better leader, significantly better clutch time performer, and accomplished all of this is significantly less time. The only thing you can really say is that Lebron might get you an extra rebound or assist per game. Even the eye test goes to Jordan.

    Also, part of Jordan's legacy was once he broke through he never lost. Nobody else could win during his era. Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Reggie...all shut out because of Jordan. However, Lebron let's everyone win. In fact Steph, KD, Tim, and Dirk all have winning records against Lebron in the Finals. And Kawhi is 1-1. Jordan never went through long stretches where he was just shut out from winning titles by his contemporaries.

    Jordan also faced better competition overall. The eastern conference in the 90s was very competitive with strong, memorable teams led by eventual hall of famers. Lebron's eastern conference has been quite possibly the worst conference the NBA has had since the 60s. And it was by design. Lebron consolidated all of the eastern conference elite talent (Wade, Bosh, Allen) thereby forming a superteam while also eliminating his competition at the same time. That is why out of the entire 2010s Lebron only beat two elite eastern conference teams: 2011 Bulls and the 2014 Pacers.

    And on top of all of that Jordan has better analytics too lol.

    Given all of this what case do you have for Lebron?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  20. THE MARTIAN MCGA

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    Gotta agree with @Zoolander . LeBron is the best basketball player ever, not the greatest
     

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