Madmick, King Kubaki, etc whoever else that is hardcore....

BoxingFanNoMore said:
The first study I read along time ago, and I think it actually shows EEG activity results, but I am not sure their might be another study similar to that one.

To be honest though, I am quite comfertable with telling people just to try it for themselves. At least just try taking your multi-vit's 30 mins before bedtime. It not like this is a $60 bottle of amino acids.
That's easy enough. Just pop an extra cap before bed (I only take one a day instead of the suggested 3 a day anyway).

Zinc is most depleted in the muscles after workouts. The fact they found mg deficiency in sleep-deprived subjects indicates to me there's some sort of connection there.
 
Madmick said:
Well, all those prove is that oral Mg administration would probably help if I had RLS or was sleep-deprived (it doesn't indicate taking Mg would prevent sleep-deprivation, only mitigate the negative effects of it).

Well that depends. First of all, the second study is far from perfect. But if you accept their results, one could ask the question, can the non sleep deprived group increase their exercise capacity and still see no decline in tolerance with Mg supplementation. That would have been more applicable, especially to athletes, for which ZMA was targeted.

Second, the second study may be interesting because if EEG data was presented, I would not be surprised to see an increase in REM sleep, most RLS occurs in the awake to sleep stages, and is least active in REM sleep, partially because paralysis occurs in the major muscle groups.

Also, many people report having more vivid dreams while using ZMA, which is clearly a sign of heightened brain activity, which is synomonous with REM sleep.

That could be a verly likely cause for the increased sleep efficiency reported in the study, and would be very easy to determine if EEG data was measured.

And a correlation between the anecdotal evidence of ZMA and the measured results of the study could be drawn, for even non RLS subjects.

Of course this would just be easier if more studies included normal healthy people who dont suffer any sleep disorders or health problems. But that isnt to glamorous when you are trying to get published so you can pad your resume. Mg really isnt the hot thing to study I would assume.

So there are plenty of other studies showing links between Mg and sleep, but they are done on subjects ranging from post op surgery patients, to post menstrual women. Which are even far less applicable.

I really didnt mean to imply those studies proved anything, just that they could have relevant results.
 
Also, I would like to add in the first study is that they state there was already anecdotal evidence.

Anecdotal observations have shown that oral magnesium therapy may ameliorate symptoms in patients with moderate RLS


Well, RLS is very easy to measure with EMG activity. So they could have just limited their study to something that is easily measureable.

Because for the most part, studies involving sleep are rather difficult to perform, because sometimes the measuring equipment will interfere with the subjects regular sleep pattern, sometimes they just go on visual observation, or surveys. And just trying to get a conistent amount of data can be tricky.

I think we all had those nights where you wake up on some bathroom floor with only a few hours of sleep and feel supringsly refreshed.
 
I looked into the studies a bit more since this is such a hot topic. The 2nd study basically says that some of the patients who have suddently died on the field were shown to have less Mg in their blood cells. They said that the stress of not sleeping lowers Mg in blood cells, and then the stress of exercise may lower them even more (they give many reasons why this may be happening). So, taking oral Mg may avoid this effect.

The second conclusion was that Mg plays an important role in the secretion of NE (Nor-epinephrin) and that additive administration can resore secretion of NE and exercise tolerance in chronic sleep deprivation.

No EEG's or any info on REM sleep.

The first paper REM (latency measured in min) sleep had no statistical difference, but had a P=.405 for a trend of a reduction.

Although, there was a trend for a SLIGHT increase in percentage of time in REM sleep, but again not statistically significant.
 
i didnt read through the whole thread, but heres what i think. i mean "studies" are pretty general. if you just found a random site packing up __x__ supplement, that might not be right. there are always "studies" or articles, on both sides - stating the opposite. i'd look into alot of accurate sources before choosing a new supplement
 
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