Machida shows how effective traditionnal Karate is

[Hazuki Ryo]

[YT]/watch?v=XCFesU7BU0s[/YT]

Just have a look at this video. Kyokushinkai is not the only style that could match with MMA. Shotokan Karate has one purpose : knocking out the opponent with one blow.

And as for Machida, i think he implemented it beautifully inside the octagon. So okay, fighters have started to pick it up, but it shows you how efficient this style can be

 

[fluffball]

A lot of weaknesses show up in there too. Holding your hands low for a "no punch to the face" tourney means you get some easy KO kicks to the head. And more importantly, having a ref break the action every few seconds means a lot of ridiculous attacks can be attempted with no drawbacks.

 

[Abezal]

Lol no.

That lead leg is asking to be destroyed. Plus that stance is a joke for movement other then forward and back.

 

[Enders]

It can be effective, but it appears that boxing and muay thai have had more success.

 

[Hazuki Ryo]

It can be effective, but it appears that boxing and muay thai have had more success.

Maybe because most of boxing and muay thai fighters were more appealed to MMA. Shotokan Karate includes a lots of Kata so it's more of philosophy and a way of living.

Of course it has to be adapted to the UFC ! Machida used mainly the posture and the counter strike type of fighting, but he sure did not export karate to UFC without bringing changes

 

[ArtemV]

It sure is interesting and good to watch Machida, because he is the best at Karate fightig in mma along with Wonderboy, but it's fun until he starts grappling I am a great Machida fan, but he has never had a strong ground game.

 

[Toxxus]

A lot of weaknesses show up in there too. Holding your hands low for a "no punch to the face" tourney means you get some easy KO kicks to the head. And more importantly, having a ref break the action every few seconds means a lot of ridiculous attacks can be attempted with no drawbacks.

If you had watched even a couple minutes of the video you'd see them knocking each other out with punches to the face...

What you're saying is true of styles like TKD and some types of karate where they don't allow face punches. The style the TS posted about shows these karate men knocking each other out with punches and kicks to the face.

I would assume they're carrying their hands low because the body kicks hurt so f'ing bad they'd rather rely on head movement to save their faces.

 

[fluffball]

If you had watched even a couple minutes of the video you'd see them knocking each other out with punches to the face...

I did and "forgot" about that when I posted, you're right.. I was wrong, but my sentiment is right, and it ties in to your other point that they carry their hands low because the body kicks hurt. They don't, they carry them low because the action gets broken up by the ref, so they are far more likely to get hit by a body kick than a punch.

I have a strong back ground in point fighting before I moved on to other stuff (black belt TKD and black belt TSD). I wouldn't give that up for the world. But even in those styles, everything changes when you allow continuous fighting. We used to have normal point fighting and we fought like in the video. There were special divisions where you scored it like boxing, and all the sudden everyone fought like in the UFC or MT. Kinda silly. When the ref can't save you, neither can a stopkick sideside to the ribs when someone bumrushes you. He's still gonna pummel you with a TJ Dillashaw style punch barrage even if you land the sidekick.

Anyway, I rant.

 

[DawsonLucas]

Maybe because most of boxing and muay thai fighters were more appealed to MMA. Shotokan Karate includes a lots of Kata so it's more of philosophy and a way of living.

Of course it has to be adapted to the UFC ! Machida used mainly the posture and the counter strike type of fighting, but he sure did not export karate to UFC without bringing changes

No.

We've had this time and again. Anytime any other striking art fights against Muay Thai they get wrecked.

Muay Thai is just that much better.

Karate can work but eve Shogun's sloppy Muay Thai was able to overwhelm Machida's Karate.

 

[UnshavenRaven]

There are strengths and weaknesses in every style. They key is to develop a solid foundation and master the principles of each respective system. Then continue to develop your skills until your style becomes uniquely your own. A style should never "make" the person. A person "makes" the style.

Iceman Chuck Liddell was Karate too by the way, and became Champ way before Machida did. The difference was that Machida was more heavily Shotokan based... and Chuck was Kenpo and Koei Kan. GSP is Kyokushin Kai as well.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If a system has full contact sparring you can anticipate it eventually becoming successful. What messed with a lot of Karate guys was that they were more into kata than they were sparring. Machida's dad saw the importance of sparring when in contact with the underground fighting scene of Brazil.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Not very effective once you get put on your back, apparently. Or put in a headlock.

 

[frederick]

He used to show how effective it was.

 

[UnshavenRaven]

No.

We've had this time and again. Anytime any other striking art fights against Muay Thai they get wrecked.

Muay Thai is just that much better.

Karate can work but eve Shogun's sloppy Muay Thai was able to overwhelm Machida's Karate.

Thiago Silva was Muay Thai, but got beat the fuck down by Machida. Alistair Overeem used Muay Thai but got KO'd by Liddell.

Andy Hug (Kyokushin Kai Karate) beat the shit outta PLENTY of Muay Thai fighters.

Conor Mcregor uses plenty of karate and smashed Diego Brandao.

It does you no good to be close minded. A style is simply a toolset. It's up to the fighter to make it come alive. ALL styles are beneficial. Each person simply has to find and sharpen the tools that work best for THEM.

 

[serr]

No.

We've had this time and again. Anytime any other striking art fights against Muay Thai they get wrecked.

Muay Thai is just that much better.

Karate can work but eve Shogun's sloppy Muay Thai was able to overwhelm Machida's Karate.

This. It was a classical example of style vs style. Muay Thai is so successful as a standup art because the art was molded around many centuries of no BS-rules fighting. Other arts weren't subjected to the same tests fight after fight. Karate was effective but showed just how it was more tailored to a war setting.

 

[KSchwarz]

The main reason why Machida achieved success was speed, good footwork and excellent reflexes. With those qualities, he could be a boxer and achieve the same success.

Of course, Shotokan and TMA in general got good things that could be used in MMA. But it should always be noted that there are other shotokan-based fighters out there, and none of them came even close to Machida.

 

[Cowb]

If a system has full contact sparring you can anticipate it eventually becoming successful. What messed with a lot of Karate guys was that they were more into kata than they were sparring. Machida's dad saw the importance of sparring when in contact with the underground fighting scene of Brazil.

Pretty much this. No single striking art translates directly into MMA due to the different rule set and prevalence of grappling in MMA. Muay Thai has generally been the most successful, not necessarily because it is the best 'system' of stand up fighting but because it allow for more of the MMA-legal strikes than most other systems (boxing for example) and because it employs tons of full-contact sparring. Kickboxing is not far behind.

Karate uses a lot of MMA-legal strikes and has potential to be a solid base upon which to build an MMA fighter - but what holds it back is the lack of prevalence of boxing/muay thai/kickboxing-style sparring.

 

[KhabibTheBeagle]

My college friend tried to convince me that Karate was, by far, the most effective form of self-defense/fighting style. He showed me a video of some old dude running with his chin the air throwing sloppy straight punches and he was serious in saying that nobody could counter that style, as if lateral movement and countering with hooks aren't real things.

Karate has its uses, but some practitioners are too convinced that they are unbeatable, when Karate has many exploitable flaws. Machida is the best pure Karate guy in the UFC, though.

 

[Winbot]

TS has consumed the cool aid.

 

[DawsonLucas]

Thiago Silva was Muay Thai, but got beat the fuck down by Machida. Alistair Overeem used Muay Thai but got KO'd by Liddell.

Andy Hug (Kyokushin Kai Karate) beat the shit outta PLENTY of Muay Thai fighters.

Conor Mcregor uses plenty of karate and smashed Diego Brandao.

It does you no good to be close minded. A style is simply a toolset. It's up to the fighter to make it come alive. ALL styles are beneficial. Each person simply has to find and sharpen the tools that work best for THEM.

You mean this Andy Hug? Pleaes don't touch my face Andy Hug?


K-1 strikers regardless of their base still have to learn Muay Thai to gain a level playing field.

You're actually taking Diego Brandao into this equation? Jesus mary and christmas! You're the greatest cherry picker here. Diego's base is BJJ NOT Muay Thai.
You're like a karatedo fanboy that just wants the illusion to never stop.

I repeat, it is rare for Karate to actually make a break through. Even Pettis who had a TKD base had to learn Muay Thai and boxing. Look at what a Muay Thai centered training in RDA, Cordeiro trained, did to Pettis.

Pure Karate rarely works in a professional setting. Machida is an anomaly and he still got wrecked by sloppy strikers.

No, an effective style is an effective style. Go train Dee Mak or Mount Shaolin flying fuck fist and see if you can survive in a boxing or Muay Thai gym.