Machida put some really tough guys to sleep

[rush61]

MAchida has slowed a bit but the biggest reason he has struggled more because he let non karateka coach him and they mitigated his unique timing and made him some quasi kickboxing fighter.

Ever watch him fight when he is struggling, he goes back for a bit into his karate bouncing style rather than that strange loose kneed John Wayne swaying circling move that he does. He sticks out his lead hand and lets it flop like he is on some promenade.

When he was a younger fighter he would always say that people tried to get him to change his stand-up and he refused. He did not refuse Cordiero and the razor sharp things he did were dulled. In addition, the demand to be more exciting forced him to dilute his style a bit to stay in the pocket.

He made mistakes against Jones by getting in close for too long otherwise he was challenging him at a time Jones was still developing.

Machidas BJJ is club speed. Meaning he rolls like he has all day and he has been taking elbows to end him. His transitions from striking to in-fighting were tricky ending in sweeps and top control. He has swayed away from foot sweeps off his attacks which were a concern for his opponents. His opponents also learned to step off line after their attack to counter his straight left (Shogun, Jones, Weidman).

He is not as old but more, he has given up tools that help him.

Yup. He was in kickboxing mode in the entire Romero fight. I didn't like it. I really think he needs one gimme fight before he retires or just retire outright. I hate seeing my favorite fighter become a shell of his former self. I guess this is how Chucks fans felt when he was nearing the end

 

[Sigoff2]

Mousasi would crush Lyoto in a rematch.

 

[KillerElite]

MAchida has slowed a bit but the biggest reason he has struggled more because he let non karateka coach him and they mitigated his unique timing and made him some quasi kickboxing fighter.

Ever watch him fight when he is struggling, he goes back for a bit into his karate bouncing style rather than that strange loose kneed John Wayne swaying circling move that he does. He sticks out his lead hand and lets it flop like he is on some promenade.

When he was a younger fighter he would always say that people tried to get him to change his stand-up and he refused. He did not refuse Cordiero and the razor sharp things he did were dulled. In addition, the demand to be more exciting forced him to dilute his style a bit to stay in the pocket.

He made mistakes against Jones by getting in close for too long otherwise he was challenging him at a time Jones was still developing.

Machidas BJJ is club speed. Meaning he rolls like he has all day and he has been taking elbows to end him. His transitions from striking to in-fighting were tricky ending in sweeps and top control. He has swayed away from foot sweeps off his attacks which were a concern for his opponents. His opponents also learned to step off line after their attack to counter his straight left (Shogun, Jones, Weidman).

He is not as old but more, he has given up tools that help him.

Remember that he wobbled jon in the first no one has done that since then.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Your damn right. Machida is an "all-timer", and deserves more credit than he gets these days. His best days are in the rear view mirror, but he was a monster in his prime.

And on top of that, he is a seriously likable guy. A great ambassador for the sport.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Yup. He was in kickboxing mode in the entire Romero fight. I didn't like it. I really think he needs one gimme fight before he retires or just retire outright. I hate seeing my favorite fighter become a shell of his former self. I guess this is how Chucks fans felt when he was nearing the end

Yeah, it is a shame to see guys getting beat up at the end of their careers. But if he still has a desire to compete, then it is hard to criticize him for doing it.

And I think we sometimes forget that these guys compete to feed their families, and they all have a right to generate income for as long as they can. The top guys obviously make good money, but it isn't necessarily enough to just retire young and ride off into the sunset.

 

[riitzni]

Lyoto exhibits some of the finest qualities as a fighter and person that we've ever seen in the cage. He will be sorely missed when he's gone. I can only hope his kids are as well trained as he is.

 

[Damianj]

yep. i've always wondered if the criticism he gets on these boards are still left over from his decision win over rua in their first fight. shogun has always gotten mad love in this forum, and that is when i noticed the machida hate really gaining momentum.

he also never got very favorable matchups from zuffa either. people talk about how long it took cerrone to get his shot, i remember lyoto had strung together a nice string of wins before he got his bid.

I think you're right. People started shitting on Machida after that fight because they were taking their anger out about the decision. While he did agree with the decision he didn't score the fight, the judges did.

Fuck em, Machida FTW

 

[Legendary]

Machida has had a good career. It broke my heart when OSP destroyed Shogun with ease.

 

[Just Creed]

Great fighter but I understand the hate he gets - the guy is so frustrating as hell to watch at times, really wish he'd focused more on his submission game

 

[Just Creed]

Remember that he wobbled jon in the first no one has done that since then.

haha I remember how defensive the Jones fans were after that - as soon as anyone questioned that Jones lost the first round and the squabbles would begin.

 

[Thai Domi]

Lyoto Machida provided us with the greatest image in the history of shoops.

 

[sherbrosrule]

Machida has a horrible back game though. In every fight where he ended on the bottom, he was completely worked. I dont think it was because Machida got slower, I think its because he stopped being so defensive minded and wanted more KOs. When you do that, you put yourself into position to receive them as well.

 

[Stump]

Machida does not get near enough respect on these forums. Watching him do his thing in his prime was a thing of beauty. The way he'd make people miss and then pay dearly for missing.

One of my favorite fighters ever.

word for word agreement with this post, here, pal.

 

[Stump]

 

[MMun]

He did at that. And some really tough guys put him to sleep.

 

[machidafan99]

Yes. I watched his Rockhold fight this morning and he did take an elbow to the neck in round 2 that put him down...that's fighting.
Tough run as of late but I still believe he can make a run. I root for him always!
The Dragon will rise once more!

 

[411dd]

Machida has a horrible back game though. In every fight where he ended on the bottom, he was completely worked. I dont think it was because Machida got slower, I think its because he stopped being so defensive minded and wanted more KOs. When you do that, you put yourself into position to receive them as well.

I blame Rener Gracie for that. He trained Machida in a paitent dogmatic old style of BJJ that is not suited to modern mma. Since Rener his bjj has gotten worse not better. I recall Machida sweeping guys like sokoju and others but now he just sticks to gracie "combatives". So predictable. That's why he got worked on the ground by the guy with the Cok pick can't remember his name atm.

 

[Hideo]

War Dragon

 

[Despotic]

I blame Rener Gracie for that. He trained Machida in a paitent dogmatic old style of BJJ that is not suited to modern mma. Since Rener his bjj has gotten worse not better. I recall Machida sweeping guys like sokoju and others but now he just sticks to gracie "combatives". So predictable. That's why he got worked on the ground by the guy with the Cok pick can't remember his name atm.

I agree about the Gracie Combatives remark. Lyotos game has been diluted to some quasi-Muay Thai/shotokan cocktail. It's funny that people think MT is the best striking still. Yes it is effective offensively but defensively you take far too many risks and damage. Not to mention MT movement/footwork is atrocious for MMA. Machidas game was so good because he used the octagon as a weapon first and foremost. His movement stifled and confused his opponents into silly mistakes.

After the first Shogun fight he basically abandoned his style. In subsequent fights, especially the Hendo fight, he barely engaged because he didn't use the octagon or any of his old set ups.

Back to the Gracie thing... Rener could learn a thing or two from Kron. He has one of the most effective and exciting styles around. Lyoto needs to go train with Kron because they live pretty close to one another anyway.

 

[Cuesta]

I agree about the Gracie Combatives remark. Lyotos game has been diluted to some quasi-Muay Thai/shotokan cocktail. It's funny that people think MT is the best striking still. Yes it is effective offensively but defensively you take far too many risks and damage. Not to mention MT movement/footwork is atrocious for MMA. Machidas game was so good because he used the octagon as a weapon first and foremost. His movement stifled and confused his opponents into silly mistakes.

After the first Shogun fight he basically abandoned his style. In subsequent fights, especially the Hendo fight, he barely engaged because he didn't use the octagon or any of his old set ups.

Back to the Gracie thing... Rener could learn a thing or two from Kron. He has one of the most effective and exciting styles around. Lyoto needs to go train with Kron because they live pretty close to one another anyway.

I completely agree with you, and I blame Cordeiro.

I remember him saying "I'll tweak Lyoto's style to be more aggressive" and thinking 'careful tough guy, Lyoto's not a Muay Thai fighter'.
Fast forward year and a half and Lyoto took more damage and was knocked out/down more times under his tutelage than in the rest of Machida's career combined.

And that's a fucking fact.