Machado Belts

I don't mind if people ask about my qualifications or whatnot, I never claimed to be more or less than what I actually am.

However, I am criticizing what I know to be bjj fraud at this point heavily, because there are people who are unjustly benefiting from it.

And, I am not sure if I should post it, but I have a conversation from another forum where some bold claims were made regarding promotions at that place.

I don't like witch hunts, but if you got something reasonably questionable that the person in question has a chance to defend I think you should put it up.

Usually, all it takes is a little honesty and these things just go away.
 
I don't like witch hunts, but if you got something reasonably questionable that the person in question has a chance to defend I think you should put it up.

Usually, all it takes is a little honesty and these things just go away.

Unless the person is full of crap, and built a reputation completely based on lies? That is sort of hard to un-do or even admit for most.
 
I train under a Rigan black belt and I will be the first to tell you he does not pass out belts like candy. You have to truly and legitimately earn them.
 
Unless the person is full of crap, and built a reputation completely based on lies? That is sort of hard to un-do or even admit for most.

I think the BJJ community is pretty forgiving. Seriously. :D If a dude says.."listen, I did such and such because it was a good business decision for me." than most people will just roll their eyes and stop talking about it.

If a person tries to defend what can't be defended than the BJJ police bite down and don't let go.

Ever.
 
I really didn't want to go here, but I do respect Mr. Fiorenzi as a BJJ black belt and will answer because he asked.

I will tell you his name by PM if you want, but a guy who owns a TMA school in Lansing was the guy who had a BJJ Brown belt awarded from East West. He holds black belts in many other martial arts, but specifically said he received his brown from Fiorenzi. SUPER nice guy, but nothing like the real BJJ brown belts I have rolled with on the mat. Was toyed with and tapped by white belts.

The blue belt Carlson Gracie Jr called out's name was "M.J.". I can PM you his last name is you want. He said he received his blue belt from Ryan Fiorenzi. I remember specifically he had to struggle to remember the name of who gave it to him. He wore a funny looking Hapkido gi. He was quite athletic but didn't know basic BJJ fundementals. Carlson Gracie Jr. called him out, not me.

Here is the video of me as a white belt against a guy who told me he trained at East West. It was a janky local tournament and this was the "advanced" division. There were 5 guys who all went round robin. There was me (a 4 stripe white belt), the East West Guy (a multiple stripe blue belt), a purple belt, and two other blue belts. I went 2-3 on the day and this guy went 0-5. In itself this is obviously NO BIG DEAL. In one match, lots of white belts will beat lots of blue belts. I have been to many tournaments and I see this same situation a lot with East West guys. This is the only one I can offer my experience with so will share it.



I don't have personal experience with any of the affiliates, so I will reserve judgement. I have friends who have trained with a few of them that say they are TMA guys who got their BJJ belts at private lessons with East West black belts. I have seen youtube videos of a couple of the affiliate purple/brown belts rolling and they didn't seem to be the level. I'm not going to start calling people out. Some of them are friends with my teammates, and universally I have been told they are good people.

I have heard these same types of things about some of the East West BJJ guys from EVERY prominent BJJ school in Michigan. The ones I have met from East West are all very cool guys. The series of anecdotal strangeness does add up though, and it does appear that in many cases the standard of BJJ belt rank is not as high in the East West affiliation then with all the others I have dealt or trained with. I certainly don't offer any "challenge" or anything silly like that.


That guy appeared to have a 4 stripe blue. I understand some guys are not competitors and are not just athletic but that guy didn't even upa or try to hip escape. It looked like he was seriously lacking fundamentals. I would like to say that I don't believe in belts and believe that lower belts beating higher belts is fairly common.

THe way that he lost was horrible however. If he would have lasted 5 minutes and lost 9-0 without getting tapped than I would not even comment on this thread. He didn't even show good defense from the bottom and that is what a higher ranking blue should at least have I feel even if he is not athletic and a non competitor.
 
And, I am not sure if I should post it, but I have a conversation from another forum where some bold claims were made regarding promotions at that place.

That solves it then. Bold claims on some random forum always equal overwhelming evidence.

By the way, I just met B.J. Penn at the airport.

Wrestleben's questions arise in part, at least, from things he's experienced, like that comp video he posted (which, if that IS an East West blue belt -- three stripes -- must've just froze. Which happens. There's just no way he doesn't know how to hip escape, etc., if he trains at East West). Although I disagree with the way Wrestleben has taken some questionable anecdotes along the way and strung them together to conclude totalizing things about Ryan and East West, I'm not sure I can blame him. I think he's motivated by keeping high standards, but I know Ryan well enough to know that he is, too. Maybe some PMs between them will do the trick.

But brollick, the way you jump on people's bandwagons in forums about things you know absolutely nothing about -- "well, that clears it up, then," "that settles it" -- to declare "fuck that guy" when that guy is a legit second degree BB under Rigan Machado, is deplorable. If some guy lies about his rank or something, or if you stumble upon some actual evidence that he gives belts away like candy, then okay, have at it. Otherwise, try to resist the sheep within you (as difficult as that may be) long enough to at least show a little respect.
 
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That solves it then. Bold claims on some random forum always equal overwhelming evidence.

By the way, I just met B.J. Penn at the airport.

Wrestleben's questions arise in part, at least, from things he's experienced, like that comp video he posted (which, if that IS an East West blue belt -- three stripes -- must've just froze. Which happens. There's just no way he doesn't know how to hip escape, etc., if he trains at East West). Although I disagree with the way Wrestleben has taken some questionable anecdotes along the way and strung them together to conclude totalizing things about Ryan and East West, I'm not sure I can blame him. I think he's motivated by keeping high standards, but I know Ryan well enough to know that he is, too. Maybe some PMs between them will do the trick.

But brollick, the way you jump on people's bandwagons in forums about things you know absolutely nothing about -- "well, that clears it up, then," "that settles it" -- to declare "fuck that guy" when that guy is a legit second degree BB under Rigan Machado, is deplorable. If some guy lies about his rank or something, or if you stumble upon some actual evidence that he gives belts away like candy, then okay, have at it. Otherwise, try to resist the sheep within you (as difficult as that may be) long enough to at least show a little respect.

I personally know the person who trains at east/west on another forum (as do all the other members)

This said person made a claim of not ever having wrestled yet receiving a purple belt in BJJ (not their own system) in a matter of 1 year.

Then after having a total of 2.5 years experience claimed to be beating all the brown belts and turning down a brown belt promotion from Rigan himself.

Then after no bjj competition gets promoted i believe a year or 1.5 years later to brown.

Then, he says he is probably going to get promoted again to black in another year.

After the forum members (3 of which were real brown belts in bjj at the time) question him, he rages and acts like proving this is no big deal.

Again, I really do not want to name any names to scar reputations forever on the internet, but this is sort of ridiculous.

People do not get purple belts in 1 year, browns in 3-4 years and blacks in 5 years WITHOUT dominating every single tournament to have undeniable proof that you deserve it. BJ Penn got promoted fast, but won the mundials. All the lloyd irvin guys got promoted but have huge ibjjf wins to back it up (again, mundials/pan ams gold at purple/brown at least)
 
And if these promotions indeed DID happen in that time-frame, with no competition domination from this person, then really the fault lies with the instructor who promoted without ever having any competition requirement.
 
Is it commonplace for East West to rank people in BJJ straight from white to purple or brown?

How much is charged for a private lesson/grading?
 
That would be a disgrace to the Machado name if it were true. I doubt that though because most Machado belt earners know what they had to do to earn it and don't want to discredit the belt.
 
That would be a disgrace to the Machado name if it were true. I doubt that though because most Machado belt earners know what they had to do to earn it and don't want to discredit the belt.

It is not only a disgrace to the Machado name, but to bjj in general.

And again, things like this are inevitable when you have people promoting without upholding standards for EVERYONE.

Some students may try to weasel their way to a promotion by either lying about their current rank, or whatever... but the only way to prove it without ANY shred of doubt is competition.
 
I personally know the person who trains at east/west on another forum (as do all the other members)

This said person made a claim of not ever having wrestled yet receiving a purple belt in BJJ (not their own system) in a matter of 1 year.

Then after having a total of 2.5 years experience claimed to be beating all the brown belts and turning down a brown belt promotion from Rigan himself.

Then after no bjj competition gets promoted i believe a year or 1.5 years later to brown.

Then, he says he is probably going to get promoted again to black in another year.

After the forum members (3 of which were real brown belts in bjj at the time) question him, he rages and acts like proving this is no big deal.

Again, I really do not want to name any names to scar reputations forever on the internet, but this is sort of ridiculous.

People do not get purple belts in 1 year, browns in 3-4 years and blacks in 5 years WITHOUT dominating every single tournament to have undeniable proof that you deserve it. BJ Penn got promoted fast, but won the mundials. All the lloyd irvin guys got promoted but have huge ibjjf wins to back it up (again, mundials/pan ams gold at purple/brown at least)

Sounds like the dude is totally full of shit. Either that or he's so badass that Rigan wants to promote him to brown after 2.5 years :)rolleyes:). What does that have to do with Ryan?
 
Sounds like the dude is totally full of shit. Either that or he's so badass that Rigan wants to promote him to brown after 2.5 years :)rolleyes:). What does that have to do with Ryan?

I keep saying this over and over.

Ryan is the head instructor at an affiliate academy.

Rigan Machado can not always be there to examine every single student for every belt promotion, thus Ryan TELLS (recommends) Rigan when to promote his students often times.

Since Ryan is the person who holds the power and responsibility behind these promotions, he is also the person that the blame falls upon.

I make a big deal out of this, because at least to me, bjj is everything and I can not stand it when people so obviously slip through the cracks like this.
 
Is it commonplace for East West to rank people in BJJ straight from white to purple or brown?

I've never heard of anyone skipping belts there. I've also never heard of anyone getting a purple belt there in a year; I don't know who this guy is on some other forum, but it seems like I would've heard about him.

I've only been training for three years, almost exactly. But most of that has been at East West, almost all of it in bjj with some no-gi (sometimes I get the stand-up bug for a month or two, and throw some boxing or something into the mix) -- with Ryan and other legit guys like Tyrone Gooden and John Toth you can look up. I'm nothing particularly special on the mat and it's a drive to East West, about an hour altogether, but I still usually manage at least three times a week, plus I try to throw in drills at home. Three years, at least three times a week, and I'm a blue belt. I plan on competing more in the next couple years, and I'm aiming for a purple belt in two more years IF I can up my training between now and then. Maybe that'll make us a belt factory in some crazy sandbagging universe.

I have no idea who the aformentioned phenom is, but I've never heard of the guy. I've never seen Ryan belt anyone because he thought they were "just swell," and I wouldn't train anywhere that did that type of shit. I have a good bullshit detector and I don't like Kool-Aid (which might also be why I couldn't respect brollick any less).

Forums like this are a colossal waste of fucking time, and I'm done with 'em. Ben, I don't think things calculate the way you've added 'em up. Hopefully you and Ryan can talk sometime.
 
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I've never heard of anyone skipping belts there. I've also never heard of anyone getting a purple belt there in a year; I don't know who this guy is on some other forum, but it seems like I would've heard about him.

I've only been training for three years, almost exactly. But most of that has been at East West, almost all of it in bjj with some no-gi (sometimes I get the stand-up bug for a month or two, and throw some boxing or something into the mix) -- with Ryan and other legit guys like Tyrone Gooden and John Toth you can look up. I'm nothing particularly special on the mat and it's a drive to East West, about an hour altogether, but I still usually manage at least three times a week, plus I try to throw in drills at home. Three years, at least three times a week, and I'm a blue belt. I plan on competing more in the next couple years, and I'm aiming for a purple belt in two more years IF I can up my training between now and then. Maybe that'll make us a belt factory in some crazy sandbagging universe.

I have no idea who the aformentioned phenom is, but I've never heard of the guy. I've never seen Ryan belt anyone because he thought they were "just swell," and I wouldn't train anywhere that did that type of shit. I have a good bullshit detector and I don't like Kool-Aid (which might also be why I couldn't respect brollick any less).

Forums like this are a colossal waste of fucking time, and I'm done with 'em. For what it's worth, Ben, I think you've probably been well-intentioned this whole time, and despite our history here, you seem like a decent guy. I just don't think things calculate the way you've added 'em up. Hopefully you and Ryan can talk sometime.

You sound like a good student who trains diligently at your gym. My beef was never aimed at someone like yourself, and I am sure SOME people at that gym are "good grapplers".

My main point was that for the most part in bjj, getting an upper belt (purple/brown/black) is almost never done specifically based on being able to beat other people just at your own gym. The sample size is simply too small.

Lets say I tap out the same black belt at my academy a bunch of times because we trained together for like 5 years. That does not necessarily make me a black belt. It is more of a testament of me knowing his game inside-out because we train together so much.

Anyone worth his salt in bjj knows that tapping in training is supposed to happen, and something far more accurate is winning a large number of matches in tournaments in your respective division (going 50 wins 9 losses in ibjjf purple belt matches as an example).

So while I don't doubt that you have skilled grapplers in your gym, you must understand that there is at least ONE (but according to this forum probably more) person at your gym who received a promotion that was not on par with the normal standards at other bjj schools.
 
So while I don't doubt that you have skilled grapplers in your gym, you must understand that there is at least ONE (but according to this forum probably more) person at your gym who received a promotion that was not on par with the normal standards at other bjj schools.

Have you emailed directly Ryan and named that one student that you think did not deserved the promotion?
 
Have you emailed directly Ryan and named that one student that you think did not deserved the promotion?

No, I assume that Ryan truly believes he did the right thing. And from what I am reading in this thread, there are probably more than just 1 person who got promoted like this.

I am in no position to lecture a bjj black belt on how to promote his students, that is a job for Rigan Machado (or whoever he is directly under).
 
No, I assume that Ryan truly believes he did the right thing. And from what I am reading in this thread, there are probably more than just 1 person who got promoted like this.

I am in no position to lecture a bjj black belt on how to promote his students, that is a job for Rigan Machado (or whoever he is directly under).

So it is just about starting a witch hunt on an instructor who you never gave the opportunity to know which particular student you are writing about!

It just does not make sense.

I suggest you email Ryan the name of the particular student and send him whatever thread you are reffering and let him decide if it is worthy for a reply.
 
So it is just about starting a witch hunt on an instructor who you never gave the opportunity to know which particular student you are writing about!

It just does not make sense.

I suggest you email Ryan the name of the particular student and send him whatever thread you are reffering and let him decide if it is worthy for a reply.

That is not what I am doing.

I stumbled upon this thread, and read about the bad reputation that this school has with their low standards.
Because I've known one of their instructors for YEARS, and have had instant message conversations with him outside of the other forum as well (and questioned his "fast" promotions way before this thread), I finally realized what was happening.

I am simply giving my testimony of all of this so that future people who may be searching the internet to see what other people think about this school, can at least make their choice after reading my story (as well as many other's)

I have nothing to gain out of writing this, I do it because I want so badly for bjj's standards to remain high. Like I said, bjj means everything to me.
 
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