losing braincells that bad?

and does it have to be for a significant amount of punishment that its effects are taken or does every punch slowly deteriorate your thinking processes
 
for the few punch drunk fighters i've met (b/c in reality, most boxers retire w/o being all screwed up) they're aren't any "dumber", just difficult for their body to communicate what their brain wants to do. I met Pinklon Thomas and he carried on a perfectly normal conversation w/ me, altho his speech was slurred. I'm sure he has all the thoughts he wants to convey in his mind, but the brain has a hard time actually putting it out there in a perfect fashion.
 
Kamehameha said:
for the few punch drunk fighters i've met (b/c in reality, most boxers retire w/o being all screwed up) they're aren't any "dumber", just difficult for their body to communicate what their brain wants to do. I met Pinklon Thomas and he carried on a perfectly normal conversation w/ me, altho his speech was slurred. I'm sure he has all the thoughts he wants to convey in his mind, but the brain has a hard time actually putting it out there in a perfect fashion.

This correlates with what I have read on this topic - the two areas that really take the damage from boxing are correlated to psychological control and motor skills, including speech. Try listening to an interview with Evander Holyfield, I could hardly understand a thing he was saying and was waiting for the sub-titles to start showing up. It doesn't seem to really impact your overall 'intelligence'.
 
How does this effect guys in their teens? Some teens box a few times a week to stay fit, spar with headgear, and may participate in amuater fights. What type of effects do you think are faced here, cause i am sure this is the situation alot of people are in, and would like to know more about.
 
Me lose brain cells?!?! Hahahahaha... ... ... Why I laugh?
 
There was an article I read sometime ago that says you should have a rest of 1 week after an impact which causes Significant trauma, no need concussion, but just severe will do, if not you may get permanent brain damage.

What is this rest thing about? It seems silly.

I mean, if the rest is so significant, then in A boxing match permanent brain damage is a certainty, after all, you get hit at least twice in ten minutes, I guess.

Is the 'rest' thing something just made up?
 
Well just from observation getting punched in the head is a sure fire way to suffer brain damage. All my boxing trainers are punchy. Not a single one (out of 7) doesn't have visible effects from boxing either pro or amateur. A lot have stutters or are slow to get words out. Its just something I accept. I will quit boxing in a few years when I feel my hands are as good as I want them to be and move into Vale Tudo completely, where I can beat up lesser strikers with ease.
 
As might be obvious, I feel those of you with experience are being by far more realistic regarding the matter.

1. What a computer can processes depends on how its put together not its size. The computer processes essentially simple calculations, the different between a Pentium 400Mhz and a pentium 450 Mhz is speed, not architecture. I think it is the same for the brain. i.e. If the processing capacity is reduced, the brain will start to prioritise functions. e.g. cognition over communication, etc, etc. so you will become slower.

2. Processing speed is a test of intelligence. It is arguable that given enough time and resource most people could solve problems solved but those considered most "intelligent".

3. Dont lie to yourself. Your brain takes damage with every hit. However it only becomes notable after a certain amount of damage has already been done. For example, you can kill 90% of your liver with knowing it at all, however once you reach the livers crucial 10% reserve you go into acute liver failure and probably die. No warning.

If you are taking lots of hard hits during sparring, if you feel dizzy/weak/faint/"punchy" after sparring, if you compete often, your brain will be effected with time.

4. Unlike Muhammed Ali, who most would say didnt take much punishment during his professional career, most of us will not have the fame or the millions of dollars to compensate brain disease.

In short, TRAIN SMART, remember after all it is your mind that you are training.
 
A couple things here.

One, by the time you hit your late teens, the number of brain cells you have are going to have to last you the rest of your life. As you lose them, your body doesn't make new ones. Gross oversimplification, but for the most part true.

Second, even just a little boxing will hurt you. Through the 1980's and early 1990's, the US Army conducted some of the most comprehensive cohort studies of the health impacts of boxing. One of the more important focuses were the neurological effects. What it boiled down to was that almost every boxer suffered measurable declines in cognitive ability. When soldiers were tested and retested in 3 and 6 month intervals, almost every single subject showed a measurable drop in g within a year, some within 3 months. These losses were statistically significant (p < .05). This is a pretty big deal, whether or not you believe in g and IQ because the tests showed a relative loss for the same indiividual.

What was interesting was that the beginner level boxers generally suffered the most, in addition to sustaining a greater number of injuries in general. This was chalked up to these boxers being less experienced. The general model seemed to indicate a good bit of loss up front, followed by a less steep but still profound loss of cognitive ability over time.

The abstracts aren't up on PubMed, but those of you with access to academic or medical libraries should be able to dig up copies if you want the reference.

In short, if you box competitive, amateur OR pro, you WILL lose brain cells. You WILL get "dumber." You may not notice it because it happens over time, but it WILL happen.

On a personal note, MT and boxing are the two things I would not do again if I were given the chance. I know for a fact that I suffered a sharp drop in my intelligence in the course of a year, only noticable because I was in college at the time. I could go on about exactly the type of things I noticed but its actually kinda depressing. :mad:
 
The last few posts made me sad. I'm 16 and have just fallen in love with boxing. I've been training for 5 months and plan on competing in amateur fights within the next year. I'm considering trying to go pro, not to be world champ but to get in a few fights simply for the unforgettable experiences. I get good grades and am a smart kid, so this whole brain damage thing is concerning to me. I would rather enjoy life and continue boxing, as life is too short to go through it safely. What if I stop boxing and be super careful, only to be hit by a drunk driver? I may as well do as I wish and not regret it. A small amount of brain damage doesn't bother me too much, as long as I appear and can function as normal. My uncle boxed back in the 70's. These were days when a newb walked in a sparred with professional boxers. Meaning, they got the living shit beat out of them, my uncle included. He fought some cholos in prison to gain some ring experience, and fought for 4-5 years. Today he seems to be perfectly fine, and enjoys life to its fullest. If I wind up like that, then it's fine with me.

Man, that was a long post.
 
Doughbelly said:
A couple things here.

One, by the time you hit your late teens, the number of brain cells you have are going to have to last you the rest of your life. As you lose them, your body doesn't make new ones. Gross oversimplification, but for the most part true.

Actually your brain does grow new cells. This is the updated modern theory.

Doughbelly said:
On a personal note, MT and boxing are the two things I would not do again if I were given the chance. I know for a fact that I suffered a sharp drop in my intelligence in the course of a year, only noticable because I was in college at the time. I could go on about exactly the type of things I noticed but its actually kinda depressing. :mad:

Did you do MT or boxing?

Why is it that we seldom hear news of a demented or parkinsoned MT fighter? Can be that its coz they are not broadcasted but..

I think I will feel quite different when a huge glove hits me and when its near bareknucke hitting me. Do you all? perhaps the huge glove causes the full impact on you but in the Wrapped punch, significant amount of force is taken away by the head turning and the punch semi slipping.
 
Well, here's how I see it.

1. Cells make up tissues, tissues make up organs, etc. Therefore, technically speaking, cell damage=organ damage. Of course, brain cells are just like any other cells in that they have a limited lifespan. You're probably losing brain cells right now. Mother nature, god, evolution, whatever knew this and gave us a lot to work with from the get-go to offset this. Of course, like Vilo said, physical symptoms of brain damage arising from getting hit in the head differ from person to person depending on all sorts of variables that I either don't care to get into or don't know about. Bottom-line, the human body is pretty resilient and the average person can probably take quite a few shots without exhibiting any major symptoms of brain damage, but this number varies from person to person.

2. The brain is an organ made up of cells that can't regenerate. Therefore, any damage done to it can't (right now, anyways) be repaired. It just so happens that it is also the organ that regulates everything in your existence as you know it. Involuntary body functions, perception, thought, consciousness*, etc. are all regulated by specialized sections of your brain either independenly or in coordination with other sections. Damage any of these sections too much, and all the functions regulated by it directly or indirectly will be negatively affected on some scale.

*for all you people out there that don't think the brain regulates the mind, try removing your buddy's thalamus and observe the effects it has on his/her conscious mind. My bet is that it will cease to exist, but if you can find differently, you'll probably win the Nobel or something.
 
thecas said:
Actually your brain does grow new cells. This is the updated modern theory.

I'm familiar with PCD and cell regeneration in the brain. As I mentioned, that statement is a gross oversimplification, but for the most part, if you lose/damage brain cells, you're not getting them back. Not to get too deeply into this, but regeneration in the hippocampus isn't going to help a boxer much anyway because of the nature of the damage done to the boxer's brain, ie subdural vs subcortical.
 
danny_171 said:
The last few posts made me sad. I'm 16 and have just fallen in love with boxing. I've been training for 5 months and plan on competing in amateur fights within the next year. I'm considering trying to go pro, not to be world champ but to get in a few fights simply for the unforgettable experiences. I get good grades and am a smart kid, so this whole brain damage thing is concerning to me. I would rather enjoy life and continue boxing, as life is too short to go through it safely. What if I stop boxing and be super careful, only to be hit by a drunk driver? I may as well do as I wish and not regret it. A small amount of brain damage doesn't bother me too much, as long as I appear and can function as normal. My uncle boxed back in the 70's. These were days when a newb walked in a sparred with professional boxers. Meaning, they got the living shit beat out of them, my uncle included. He fought some cholos in prison to gain some ring experience, and fought for 4-5 years. Today he seems to be perfectly fine, and enjoys life to its fullest. If I wind up like that, then it's fine with me.

Man, that was a long post.

It sounds like you've already made your choice. You also sound like a fairly conscientious young man, capable of critical thought before making his own decisions, so I'm not going to try to dissuade you from it. OTOH, I wasn't much older than you when I decided to jump into boxing/KB/MT headfirst, against advice. This is one of those things where if I were given the chance to go back in time, Older Me would kick Younger Me's ass about.

If you don't go into a field that doesn't require a lot of heavy duty abstract, technical, and/or "intuitive leap" type of thinking, you'll probably never notice. OTOH, you might find yourself wondering someday why you can't solve a certain type of fluid mech problems in your head nearly as well as you used to. It's because you dulled that aspect of your mental edge by beating up your brain.

At some point in the future, you'll also figure out why the "I could die in a car accident tommorow so I'll do something stupid now" is a stupid argument as well. :wink:
 
Doughbelly said:
I'm familiar with PCD and cell regeneration in the brain. As I mentioned, that statement is a gross oversimplification, but for the most part, if you lose/damage brain cells, you're not getting them back. Not to get too deeply into this, but regeneration in the hippocampus isn't going to help a boxer much anyway because of the nature of the damage done to the boxer's brain, ie subdural vs subcortical.

Actually, wont this happen in Judo too? I feel that the impact to the brain from 3 Throws is worse than one punch, even if you do not land on your head. The shock/rumble in your brain will be there too, no?

By the last part of your post do you mean brain damage in boxing is mainly to the outer layers, while regeneration in the central areas?
 
I always figured that if I don't drink, or do drugs, that a little damage from fighting is going to do me far less harm than the binge drinking college students do to their bodies.
 
I dont know if it was written but firstly, yes braincells do regrow, but when losing them from trauma like in boxing there will be scar tissue that does impare diffrent functions in the brain.

The sports where you lose most braincells are infact long distance skiing because of the lack of oxygen in the brain during the last sprint. It is more common then not that highlevel cross country skiiers experince the same symptoms that normaly occur to a concussed person directly after a race.
 
thecas said:
Actually, wont this happen in Judo too? I feel that the impact to the brain from 3 Throws is worse than one punch, even if you do not land on your head. The shock/rumble in your brain will be there too, no?
Not really. You learn to fall properly, keeping your head off the mat and in reality not all the the throws in judo are with such high impact.

Even if there IS a high impact throw there's not such a sharp jerk as when you get punched hard - most of the impact is on your legs and torso.
 
I DO think there's a risk involved in boxing.

However, I find it ironic to think of some guy sitting in front of the TV eating Cheezels and Supersized McDonalds and complaining about the dangers of boxing to the brain, while the boxer trains hard to get fit, is disciplined & eats only good food.

Compare the life expectancy of recreational, amateur & pro boxers to lazy, obese, inactive f#cks - I know what lifestyle I'd choose - despite the risk of boxing.
 
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