looking for an efficient submission after the o/u pass

[mcgoatp4p#1]

i trained mostly sweeps and passes for the past few years, so i dont have much trouble there, but as soon as i get into side control i have a hard time setting up any kind of submission.

i like marcelo's philosophy of only using the most efficient subs that will work against anyone. i just haven't found one that works really well for me in side control. im also 135 lbs, so that may factor into it.

i was trying marcelo's knee on belly spinning armbar for a while, but thats predicated on my opponent framing his hands against my knee, which seems to me like a really white belt level response. im sure some level of detail im missing though.

technique in question:

 

[mcgoatp4p#1]

bump

 

[Uchi Mata]

Wait, so does this have anything to do with over/under passes specifically, or are you just asking how to play side control?

 

[Forceof1]

I hit a lot of darces out of my o/u passes. As I finish the pass, they are often on their side, framing on my upper body to slow me down.

Or, I use this opportunity to start feeding the lapel around for brabo style attacks. Pass - feed - flatten - submit.

 

[mcgoatp4p#1]

Wait, so does this have anything to do with over/under passes specifically, or are you just asking how to play side control?

ideally id like to find a submission that works well after that pass. but thinking about it, i guess i always end up in a regular side control position afterwards, with my right arm underhooking his leg. so i guess it is just a side control question

 

[NateTx4112]

I mean there is the dog bar from over/under, but after you pass it's just side control submissions.

 

[mcgoatp4p#1]

I mean there is the dog bar from over/under, but after you pass it's just side control submissions.

dog bar?

 

[lutalivre1989]

i was trying marcelo's knee on belly spinning armbar for a while, but thats predicated on my opponent framing his hands against my knee, which seems to me like a really white belt level response. im sure some level of detail im missing though.

When your opponent is framing against you when you are trying to step over his head you can try to push his frame off with your free hand (the one that isn't undercooking his arm). If he is stronger than you and you are unable to peel/push his frame off it is often possible to use your other knee to come inside his frame and pin down his free arm (you can also move to a mounted crucifix from there).

 

[lutalivre1989]

dog bar?

a dog bar is a submission directly from the over under pass position. You are controlling your opponents hips with your over under control while you are applying a knee bar with your legs. It kinda looks like a dog humping a leg. (At least I think that's where the name comes from)

 

[NateTx4112]

a dog bar is a submission directly from the over under pass position. You are controlling your opponents hips with your over under control while you are applying a knee bar with your legs. It kinda looks like a dog humping a leg. (At least I think that's where the name comes from)

yep.

It's a kneebar that Oli Geddes was famous for on f12 at least.

 

[Uchi Mata]

yep.

It's a kneebar that Oli Geddes was famous for on f12 at least.

Faria won literally like 5 matches in a row at Pans with the o/u kneebar. It works. Makes the pass easier as well.

 

[Uchi Mata]

ideally id like to find a submission that works well after that pass. but thinking about it, i guess i always end up in a regular side control position afterwards, with my right arm underhooking his leg. so i guess it is just a side control question

Well that's a big question. There are two main schools of though with side control: try to submit from there (or KOB which is closely related), or try to get mount/back. It's mostly a matter of personal taste and it's good to be able to play both ways, but if you're looking for a stable, reliable method of progressing from side control I'd work on ways to get to mount, or take the back if uke turns away from you. I mostly go to mount myself unless I'm feeling especially aggressive (or getting ready for sub-only) in which case I'll play a lot of lapel feed KOB ala Gui Mendes.

 

[Ton]

My recent favorite is nogi baseball bat choke from side control. Place hand under their neck> bring the other arm and put your palms together (while keeping them down with your elbow/ the hand under the neck has to be on top of the grip) > bring your elbows together and your hip side leg under and through your head side leg. I've been told it feels like your head is going to pop off.

EDIT/fixed: not sure why i wrote 'S grip' in there, its definitely not the S grip. haha

 

[berimBOWLoh]

the way Murilo often gets to mount from the o/u by using his head as a farside underhook sets up subs nicely. so does achieving double unders once you pass.

for the most part when i pass o/u im more worried about stabilizing than sub.

 

[Badger67]

From Side or NS - Papercutter. Most people think they are safe from this type of choke as most don't know it exists. They only think arm triangle, armbar, NS choke or samurai. I'm exceptionally good at it and recommend it to anyone who isn't familiar and finds themselves in these two positions. I'm similar in size (147lb) and can tap larger guys with it. I've been debating making an instructional on it as i do tweak a few things.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

From Side or NS - Papercutter. Most people think they are safe from this type of choke as most don't know it exists. They only think arm triangle, armbar, NS choke or samurai. I'm exceptionally good at it and recommend it to anyone who isn't familiar and finds themselves in these two positions. I'm similar in size (147lb) and can tap larger guys with it. I've been debating making an instructional on it as i do tweak a few things.

I love this choke. Basically zero-risk and sets up the mount and back if they defend. The key for me is using your head to fight his free hand when you're getting the second grip in (warning: may sometimes lead to awkward point-blank eye-contact).

 

[mcgoatp4p#1]

When your opponent is framing against you when you are trying to step over his head you can try to push his frame off with your free hand (the one that isn't undercooking his arm). If he is stronger than you and you are unable to peel/push his frame off it is often possible to use your other knee to come inside his frame and pin down his free arm (you can also move to a mounted crucifix from there).

are you talking about the opponent framing against your knee? cuz i never get that reaction with kob. it could be because im not putting enough pressure, but it also seems like a really beginner level response. like my knee's not going anywhere and shrimping out at that point isn't gonna do much good either cuz my knee's just gonna follow wherever you go. on the other hand, marcelo uses this armbar all the time so there must be something im missing.

 

[lutalivre1989]

are you talking about the opponent framing against your knee? cuz i never get that reaction with kob. it could be because im not putting enough pressure, but it also seems like a really beginner level response. like my knee's not going anywhere and shrimping out at that point isn't gonna do much good either cuz my knee's just gonna follow wherever you go. on the other hand, marcelo uses this armbar all the time so there must be something im missing.

Sorry I misread your initial post. I thought you had trouble with your opponent blocking you from stepping over his head to finish the armbar.

 

[Anthas]

From Side or NS - Papercutter. Most people think they are safe from this type of choke as most don't know it exists. They only think arm triangle, armbar, NS choke or samurai. I'm exceptionally good at it and recommend it to anyone who isn't familiar and finds themselves in these two positions. I'm similar in size (147lb) and can tap larger guys with it. I've been debating making an instructional on it as i do tweak a few things.

Please do... I'm really interested, as I do try it but doesn't really work well for me...

 

[Badger67]

Please do... I'm really interested, as I do try it but doesn't really work well for me...

I'll have to wait until my good comp is up and running but in the mean time a general tip for the choke, when getting the collar grip that you will use to choke with, slide your thumb underneath their ear. This is the perfect distance on their lapel. Then, after you cut across with the blade of your arm across their throat, radial deviate the wrist and flex the wrist toward you while pushing that wrist joint into their throat and then tuck your shoulder simultaneously onto their head the same way you would a side control. With your other hand, you want to be pulling the back of their collar toward their butt and up at the same time.

I like the NS aspect better because i can trap their arm in between my armpit and then i only have to fight off one arm, but side control works also. It's nice because on a big guy it puts all the pressure on their throat and it sets in so fastif they are big or higher rank it'll be the first time you see them spaz to get out of a smaller/lower rank sub. I've put a lot of people to sleep with it.

The video i hope to create will be better than this, but as far as word guidance this is all i can give. If you add me to your friend list on here when i get it i can send it to you directly and answer more Q's. It's the only sub i feel i'm better at than most people and i've spent time working on it despite only being a blue belt.