Lomachenko vs Teofimo Lopez possible September 19

[SandisLL]

Loma will be countering his counter attempts often because Lopez bites hard on feints,

Looks that Loma is the best currently active pro if talking is about feints.

He has a real puncher's chance though and his power is a potential game-changer

Of course, still Loma too does have high 1 punch win chance and not at all is weak puncher. Due to his style he is not considered as hard puncher but he is enough precise to be capable achieve stoppages with any of his hands, might bang head, liver, solar plexus enough effective with single not long distance blow.
/ Lopez is good cat, with time definitely he will improve a lot.

 

[Seano]

There are far more significant differences than there are superficial similarities between Khan and Loma. You wouldn't classify Khan as a pressure fighter, Loma is, but not a classical pressure fighter that at times eat punches to get in and get to their man. He's much sharper offensively than Khan with his punches and his technique and footwork are far and away superior. He's also considerably tighter and a lot more proficient defensively. Khan isn't fundamentally sound like Loma is, his combination punching isn't as sharp and varied, nor is his timing, creativity, or shot placement & selection. Loma is the far more capable and polished technician and tactician of the two, much better schooled, more versatile, way more dynamic, more durable, more complete and nuanced. He's also ambidextrous. Khan doesn't do anything better from a technical perspective and he's never had "all the tools."

Their approaches are also drastically different. How many opponents has Khan made quit because they were so thoroughly outclassed that they mentally checked out to end the humiliation? They're getting hit by Loma much more than they're hitting him while also getting styled on and frustrated as a result. Loma is still the highest Plus/Minus rated fighter since Floyd and he's remarkably doing it on the front foot as the aggressor against naturally bigger competent opponents. That speaks to his ring generalship and overall craft. He breaks them down mentally/psychologically first and then physically. He's unique in those regards. Khan's main strategy isn't methodical or sophisticated and he relies far more on his athletic gifts than craft. The closest active fighter to Khan right now as far as superficial comparisons go would be Linares, not Loma. That particular comparison has been made multiple times around here before.

This really seems like an overly analytical response to what I said. I'm just saying they're similar in their approach and basic style.

 

[Buddy Revell]

One thing I think we can all agree on is this fight isn’t going to the cards, right?

Im picking Loma to win by stoppage sometime around rounds 6-9, via a well placed body shot or walking Lopez onto a right hook counter.

And clearly Lopez’ only shot to win is by KO.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

One thing I think we can all agree on is this fight isn’t going to the cards, right?

Im picking Loma to win by stoppage sometime around rounds 6-9, via a well placed body shot or walking Lopez onto a right hook counter.

And clearly Lopez’ only shot to win is by KO.

I can't speak for the others but I agree that one of these fine young men will be stopped/kayo'd. I think Lopez is defensively lacking too much to survive 12 rounds with Loma and Loma can't be eating clean shots from him. I also don't think Lopez has the necessary survival skills yet in his game to recover if/when he finds himself in real trouble.

I'm picking Loma by stoppage as well but I'm not sure when I expect it will happen, I just know it almost certainly won't be early (first 4 rounds). I'm thinking the mid rounds too but I don't have an exact round in mind yet. With Lopez, if he's the one that gets the stoppage/kayo, then I think it will be in the early rounds given how fast he starts and how dangerous he is at that point combined with Loma being a slow'ish starter.

 

[ironfist05]

[
eh, when I argued that before, everyone insisted they didn't count and Lomachenko made history winning a title. Which is it?

officially, it's both

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

[
eh, when I argued that before, everyone insisted they didn't count and Lomachenko made history winning a title. Which is it?

Lomachenko made history either way by becoming the fastest man (fewest fights needed) to win major world titles in 3 divisions. Even if we count his 6 World Series of Boxing fights then he would've been credited with 9 fights when he won his first world title in his first division. Then it would be 13 pro fights to his second divisional world title and 18 to his third divisional world title. That mark, 18 pro fights, would break the previous record which was realistically held by Jeff Fenech who became a three-division titleholder in just 20 fights (it isn't Ioka at 18 fights or Tanaka at 12 since they both won secondary titles (WBA Regular) but Wikipedia contributors have counted them anyway below).

Officially though, without counting the 6 World Series of Boxing fights (and neither official record keeper does per the recent ruling), Lomachenko is tied for fastest man to win a world title (3 fights), the current record holder for fastest man to become a two-division titleholder (7 fights), and also the current record holder for the fastest man to become a three-division titleholder (12 fights).

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@Seano, you'll be pleased to know that Claressa Shields broke Lomachenko's record earlier this year by becoming a three-division titleholder in only 10 fights. However, it's women's boxing, so it's not nearly as difficult to pull off. That's why I said Loma is the fastest man. Both being double Olympic champions undoubtedly worked to their advantage here. Hail to da GWOAT!

 

[Seano]

@Seano, you'll be pleased to know that Claressa Shields broke Lomachenko's record earlier this year by becoming a three-division titleholder in only 10 fights. However, it's women's boxing, so it's not nearly as difficult to pull off. That's why I said Loma is the fastest man. Both being double Olympic champions undoubtedly worked to their advantage here. Hail to da GWOAT!

 

[Based and White Pilled]

This really seems like an overly analytical response to what I said. I'm just saying they're similar in their approach and basic style.

I think the overly analytical responses showed pretty conclusively that they aren't similar in their approach, even if they are kind of similar in their basic style.

 

[ironfist05]

This really seems like an overly analytical response to what I said. I'm just saying they're similar in their approach and basic style.

but they're really not

 

[aries]

Yeah, what Loma does is systematically take opponents apart using "phased attacks" as you pointed out. I noticed that Lopez leads off the step after going back and watching some of his other recent fights. I was looking for tendencies and that one was easy to spot. It'll leave him susceptible to being timed and countered as he collapses the pocket and attempts to surprise attack Loma. At the end of the 5th round against Campbell Loma set a trap and walked him into a short straight left counter that stunned him. He was all over him from there but he only had 10 seconds left to work. I see him doing the same thing to Lopez and hurting him due to that tendency of leading off the step as his timing is predictable when he's opening up on the front foot.

I expect him to make swiss cheese out of that crab/shell posture with the shoulder roll as well, another tendency Lopez has that he primarily relies on for defense. I noticed the emphasis on single shots with Lopez as well which is why I believe Loma will be so effective at outworking him. Occasionally you'll see Lopez throw combinations but it's mainly one big shot at a time with a follow-up planned here and there (with a left hook finish to close out his combo for example). I've never seen a sustained body attack from him either but with his power he might only need to drill you once with a huge shot on the front foot like he did when he tattooed Tatli and stopped him to the body.

Good point about the high guard against Russell. I just talked about that recently with another poster here. Because Russell is so fast and he throws in combination he almost forces you to operate out of a high guard. That's what Loma used against him along with emphasizing countering him, going to the body, and pushing him back, and JoJo Diaz used a high guard and body work as well (with some success to his credit). It's great for walking guys down regardless as Canelo most recently showed against Kovalev, catching & shooting as he crept forward, and using his defense to get in and stay in front of him to keep the pressure on, land his shots, and advance on him with slow but steady pressure. It could work well for Loma since Lopez doesn't go to the body often but Lopez's shot selection would allow him to split it up the middle with his uppercuts, rear uppercut in particular, and his left hook could go around the guard. The high guard is only meant to block straight punches through the middle well, jabs and rear straights, which is what Kovalev mostly throws as largely (but not entirely) a 1-2 fighter, so Canelo's high guard usage was a perfect fit really.

Yeah fair point about Lopez shell defence, he's no Mayweather in that regard. It also has the tendency to make the user static with respect to footwork which is a recipe for Loma to step around him and then that left shoulder won't do anything to protect him.

The high guard as you say is great against straight ahead attacks but Lopez also has uppercuts and hooks but the thing is Loma often uses not just one but two layers of defence. You don't see it done that often because it's tiring and it can slow you down but Loma is one of the few that can hold a high guard and move his head at the same time. It just makes it damn hard to hit him. So even if Lopez does try and get around that guard with his punch selection he's still got to hit a moving target.

And in that respect it I think Lopez's best strategy would be to use his size and power and target Loma's body. Salido, although through illegal techniques, showed that Loma is vulnerable to the body and much easier to hit then when you are aiming at his head. But Lopez has a very different style to Salido and I don't see him bull-rushing Loma with forward pressure. Plus that fight was a long time ago and Loma most likely has an answer to that style now. I think Lopez's best chance is his speed and how well he can set up an untelegraphed attack because as you rightly said if he steps first it will give away his intentions.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yeah fair point about Lopez shell defence, he's no Mayweather in that regard. It also has the tendency to make the user static with respect to footwork which is a recipe for Loma to step around him and then that left shoulder won't do anything to protect him.

The high guard as you say is great against straight ahead attacks but Lopez also has uppercuts and hooks but the thing is Loma often uses not just one but two layers of defence. You don't see it done that often because it's tiring and it can slow you down but Loma is one of the few that can hold a high guard and move his head at the same time. It just makes it damn hard to hit him. So even if Lopez does try and get around that guard with his punch selection he's still got to hit a moving target.

And in that respect it I think Lopez's best strategy would be to use his size and power and target Loma's body. Salido, although through illegal techniques, showed that Loma is vulnerable to the body and much easier to hit then when you are aiming at his head. But Lopez has a very different style to Salido and I don't see him bull-rushing Loma with forward pressure. Plus that fight was a long time ago and Loma most likely has an answer to that style now. I think Lopez's best chance is his speed and how well he can set up an untelegraphed attack because as you rightly said if he steps first it will give away his intentions.

The shell/crab defense would work much better against Loma if Lopez was a southpaw himself or could at least switch-hit as a southpaw. I've been talking about this for years here and it was Bradley's biggest concern with Lopez against Loma, that and Lopez's porous defense. Loma won't even need to turn him to get him to open up he can just sneak straight lefts through because of how the angles line up in open stance match-ups (the straight lefts will be coming from the inside angle not the outside). I expect he'll be doing both of those things regularly though.

Lopez will try his luck on the front foot at some point and try to apply pressure but he's only going to get so far with that because he has a weak control game on the front foot, he's not busy enough, he can't cut the ring, he doesn't hold the ring well himself (Commey got him to the ropes briefly, so did Nakatani), and he doesn't feint often enough or probe enough. Loma will be the one doing the effective work on the front foot and he'll eventually look to cut him off and back him into the ropes/corners. Once that happens he's comfortable sitting down on his heaviest shots as he can take his time and freely pick his shots. It's no coincidence that Martinez and Crolla got KO'd along the ropes. He can get you there quickly too so Lopez will have to be cautious himself.

 

[Seano]

but they're really not

eh, I disagree.

 

[Hagler]

That’s a damn good fight, gentlemen. Let’s just all be grateful for its happening.

I wouldn’t bet on either guy.

 

[KID Yamamoto]

Toughest fight for Lomachenko so far. Teofimo has stupid power for his weight class.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Here's an update from a couple days ago courtesy of Steve Kim at ESPN
Vasiliy Lomachenko arrives to U.S. from Ukraine for training
“Unified lightweight champion Vasiliy Lomachenko has arrived in the United States in preparation for his highly anticipated unification fight against IBF titlist Teofimo Lopez (15-0, 12 KOs) on Oct. 17 at the MGM Grand Conference Center in Las Vegas.

"Mr. Lomachenko is in the house," Egis Klimas, Lomachenko's manager, confirmed Sunday night. Klimas picked Lomachenko up from Los Angeles International Airport.

Lomachenko landed from the Ukraine in an upbeat manner.

"He was in a very happy mood," Klimas said. "We called Bob [Arum], and we said, 'Bob, Loma is here,' and Bob gave us a little speech about how happy everybody is, excited about [the fight], and Loma just said a couple of words: 'Bob, I can't wait for Oct. 17.'"

Lomachenko is no stranger to championship fights, but his manager believes that this particular matchup has him more excited than he was for any of his past bouts.

"It's the most excited he's ever been for a fight because he says, 'Finally, we are in a fight everyone is waiting for,'" Klimas said. "Because even before, they were good fights, [but] people weren't talking about it. But this fight everybody is waiting for."

Lopez and his outspoken and boisterous father, who is also named Teofimo, haven't been shy in expressing their confidence about knocking the highly accomplished Lomachenko off his perch. That hasn't gone unnoticed by the other side.

"Let me tell you: Nobody has seen Vasiliy in the ring more than 65 percent of what he can do because he has never had any opponents who could push him in the ring," Klimas said. "Nobody can push him with what he needs to show what he can do 100 percent. So we never saw who really Lomachenko is."

Klimas believes that if Lopez can bring out 80 or 90 percent of the optimal version of his fighter, that will make Lopez the best opponent they have faced.

Klimas also said that for this bout, the southpaw stylist from Ukraine, who currently holds the WBA and WBO world titles as well as the WBC "franchise" championship, will not be working at the Boxing Laboratory in Oxnard, California, as he has in the past.

"No, he's going to be training in his home gym in Camarillo," Klimas said. "Because he's a Lomachenko, [and] he thinks everything ahead, last year he built a gym -- just in case."

Lomachenko has been hard at work training for this fight, and his arrival in the United States is the next step in the plan.

"Official camp already started in the Ukraine a couple of weeks ago, and they just transferred the training from the Ukraine to the States," Klimas said. "They would've been here a little bit earlier, a couple of weeks earlier, but for the team, we had some visa issues."”

 

[SandisLL]

maybe visa issues were for sparring partners or some from handlers? murcins are a bit too cautious with visas. maybe better banging was intended to be done in U.K?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

maybe visa issues were for sparring partners or some from handlers? murcins are a bit too cautious with visas. maybe better banging was intended to be done in U.K?

Sounds like it. He can get better sparring here in America. He just built his own private gym in Camarillo, California last year and that's where he'll be doing the rest of his camp (2 weeks in Ukraine, approximately 6 weeks in America). As the article says he usually finishes his training camps in Oxnard, California when he's stateside at the Boxing Laboratory (which used to be RGBA). That's not the case this time.

 

[SandisLL]

If about average, yeah, best availability of sparring partners is in US but maybe now too he also picks some guys from europe to add.
not that easy to hire enough boxers from top 5% in required size.
And he definitely does needs not just few guys despite round robin usually is used to prepare for 10 and 12 rounders.

 

[SandisLL]

He just built his own private gym in Camarillo, California last year

good stuff for him, private gym.