Lomachenko and Cruz have the same style?. Great fighters both of them

[Realiity Check]

Sorry I didn't read all that, don't have time for that. It's great that you have all the time to know everything about loma. I know he's really good. We'll see how good he is in the near future when he starts facing better competition that Solido.

Already faced better competition in Russell and Martinez . A rematch is in the works where he probably finishes Salido this time who as previously mentioned is one of boxing's biggest cheats.

 

[Realiity Check]

He's faced better competition than Salido and soundly defeated them. Gary Russell Jr is a former US Olympian and a much more skilled technical boxer than Salido (who is a brawler with a lot of heart, dirty tactics and resilience). He's also FAR more physically gifted. He has some of the fastest hands in boxing, in fact, according to a recent Box Nation poll he was voted #1 over Khan, Pacquiao and others, and Lomachenko shut that down completely. Roman Martinez (who holds a win over Salido and drew with him in their rematch) is also as good if not better than Salido and he's a bit younger than him and larger. Martinez even managed to drop Mikey Garcia when they fought but ultimately got beaten up and finished in the 8th round (Loma smashed him without ever getting into any trouble in the 5th). Garcia was a top level fighter that just came back to boxing after a hiatus. Floyd has been trying to sign him.

Enjoy the video I shared, if you even watched it.

Should've cosigned with your post but didn't manage to see it but 100 percent agree with this.

 

[Lamfadha]

Head movement and "never crossing your feet" AKA stance switching are the two most overrated things from a idiotic sport.

 

[The Adder]

Another "mma is the insecure little brother of combat sports" thread....

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Let's look at the facts: Anybody who says a guy who's amateur record was 396-1 is "green as you can get" is a moron.

How many 12 rounders do you think there are in the amateurs? LOL. Pro boxing and amateur boxing aren't the same sport. When Lomachenko was competing it was in headgear. He also fought as a semi-pro in WSB against other amateurs but those were only 5 rounders. In the pro ranks he was as green as it gets, having only one fight, a 10 rounder, in his debut. Stick to playing video games button masher.

There are major differences between amateur and professional boxing, especially when Loma fought on the amateur circuit compared to now where currently in Rio at the Olympics no headgear is being worn (again, it used to be this way) and pros are now allowed to compete if they qualify.

Here are all of those differences http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/...fferences-Between-Amateur-Boxing-and-the-Pros

Amateur boxing is a great "platform" to start you off, as the article notes. It exposes you to all kinds of styles early on and hones your technique and skills. But, it cannot prepare you for Salido's style of balls to the wall "in-fighting" relying on countless low blows and headbutts and excessive clinching. There are major differences between the two. If they were so similar then we'd have seen many decorated amateurs coming straight from the World Championships and from the Olympics to challenge for world titles in just their first handful of pro fights. Don't you think, genius? Very few fighters are fast tracked (Lomachenko, Inoue, Shiming, Rigondeaux...) because the pro ranks aren't the same as the amateurs and gaining experience is HUGE. One is the hurt business and the other is essentially a fast paced game of tag with much stricter enforcement of the rules at the highest level.

 

[wolfss]

He's faced better competition than Salido and soundly defeated them. Gary Russell Jr is a former US Olympian and a much more skilled technical boxer than Salido (who is a brawler with a lot of heart, dirty tactics and resilience). He's also FAR more physically gifted. He has some of the fastest hands in boxing, in fact, according to a recent Box Nation poll he was voted #1 over Khan, Pacquiao and others, and Lomachenko shut that down completely. Roman Martinez (who holds a win over Salido and drew with him in their rematch) is also as good if not better than Salido and he's a bit younger than him and larger. Martinez even managed to drop Mikey Garcia when they fought but ultimately got beaten up and finished in the 8th round (Loma smashed him without ever getting into any trouble in the 5th). Garcia was a top level fighter that just came back to boxing after a hiatus. Floyd has been trying to sign him.

Enjoy the video I shared, if you even watched it.

 

[Bewareofdawg]

Stay delusional.

An amateur fighter knows more about fighting than you.

The only thing you're guilty of fighting in life is the urge to jerk yourself off into a coma.

And I'm the one with delusions... Lol

 

[skysolo]

Look at the footwork. Crazy

Lomachenko

STEVE

1. 

 

[Hi-Tech]

Head movement and "never crossing your feet" AKA stance switching are the two most overrated things from a idiotic sport.

Never crossing your feet and stance switching are totally different things. Fedor and Silva dominated their divisions with a style based on head movement.

 

[Lamfadha]

Never crossing your feet and stance switching are totally different things. Fedor and Silva dominated their divisions with a style based on head movement.

And Lando Vannata got choked out because of head movement. Hunt slipped into a headkick. Brad Picket ducked into a flying knee etc
Not saying head movement is totally useless I just think people rate it higher than they should.

Also a few people have been bringing up examples of people crossing their feet that I have only seen stance switch, I was referring to that.
I will stand by thinking boxing is idiotic because it only uses two weapons it is too one dimensional.

 

[Hi-Tech]

And Lando Vannata got choked out because of head movement. Hunt slipped into a headkick. Brad Picket ducked into a flying knee etc
Not saying head movement is totally useless I just think people rate it higher than they should.

Weidman threw a spinning kick and got beaten up, Cain went for a takedown vs Werdum and got chocked out. So spinning kicks and takedowns are overrated now too?

I will stand by thinking boxing is idiotic because it only uses two weapons it is too one dimensional.

Aren't you some judo guy? It's funny coming from you because no one gives a crap about your irrelevant boring sport that can't even sustain itself financially. Where is your Muhammad Ali, where is your Mike Tyson, where is your Hagler vs Hearns? Boxing is the king of combat sports. It's what people want to watch because it's the most aesthetic combat sport while judokas are stiff as a board and don't know how to throw a punch to save their lives.

UFC only exists today because of boxing.

 

[Lamfadha]

Weidman threw a spinning kick and got beaten up, Cain went for a takedown vs Werdum and got chocked out. So spinning kicks and takedowns are overrated now too?



Aren't you some judo guy? It's funny coming from you because no one gives a crap about your irrelevant boring sport that can't even sustain itself financially. Where is your Muhammad Ali, where is your Mike Tyson, where is your Hagler vs Hearns? Boxing is the king of combat sports. It's what people want to watch because it's the most aesthetic combat sport while judokas are stiff as a board and don't know how to throw a punch to save their lives.

UFC only exists today because of boxing.

Attacks open you up to attacks, when defence opens you up to attacks it is shit. Head movement is ok in boxing but it is utter shit in MMA when it gets you choked out.

Not a Judo guy I just know martial arts history and don't like it when people say shit like "BJJ is so much better than Judo technique" when BJJ didn't innovate until 2005ish.
It is like saying Russians didn't combine Wrestling and Judo Ne Waza first it is just false they did it first and better than MMA has so far.

Also Boxing looks like shit cause I am too busy raging about them folding at the hips not keeping upright posture because they are opening themselves up to being smacked on the head with a bat/chair etc or knee'd in the face or being off balance to throw proper kicks. Just because the majority of people like something so illogical as limiting the rules to hands only is not indicative of quality. Like pop music it is almost all bad still popular. I can barely stand American MMA rules because they ban legitimate techniques. Also MMA has Pro Wrestling to thank not boxing.

 

[Hi-Tech]

Attacks open you up to attacks, when defence opens you up to attacks it is shit. Head movement is ok in boxing but it is utter shit in MMA when it gets you choked out.

No it doesn't, that's literally one case where a novice Landon was doing risky moves in front of his opponent. And yeah, defending in certain way can leave you vulnerable to certain attacks, just like in boxing you can easily eat an uppercut with that sort of movement. Vitor pulled guard against Jacare which is a defensive move and got pounded doesn't mean that BJJ sucks.

Also Boxing looks like shit cause I am too busy raging about them folding at the hips not keeping upright posture because they are opening themselves up to being smacked on the head with a bat/chair etc or knee'd in the face or being off balance to throw proper kicks.

Since when do boxers need to worry about kicks or bats? Might as well stop watching MMA then because by going into fights without weapons they're leaving themselves open to being stabbed.

Just because the majority of people like something so illogical as limiting the rules to hands only is not indicative of quality. Like pop music it is almost all bad still popular. I can barely stand American MMA rules because they ban legitimate techniques.

Because limiting the rules to hands only gives boxers more freedom of movement and provides exciting 10-12 rounds of tactical warfare or a battle of endurance and will. The results in an aesthetically more pleasing sport which is also more technical, more demanding and gives a better indication who is the better man, the better competitor and the better athlete between the two people who participate in the sport. MMA is the pop music here because it's less technical, less tactical and more of a lottery. More people can understand it and it's also great for this short attention span generation because the fights aren't that long.

Limiting a duel to a set of specific rules is the most ancient of human traditions. Even real warfare has rules. Boxing is essentially pure fighting when you remove all the bitch moves, it's a gentleman's sport.

Also MMA has Pro Wrestling to thank not boxing.

If boxing didn't exist MMA wouldn't exist today either. The only reason why it's not banned and underground is because MMA pioneers used boxing (an established sport with 100+ years of history) as a reference, claiming that their sport isn't more dangerous than boxing. Because boxing is culturally established the public accepted MMA.

Also, it was only after UFC was taken over by BOXING people like Dana White that progress was made because non-boxing people are clueless when it comes to promoting fights. That's the reason why all other combat sports can't even sustain themselves only boxing and UFC (thanks to a boxing aficionado Dana White) make real financial profit and real big money fights.

 

[Lamfadha]

No it doesn't, that's literally one case where a novice Landon was doing risky moves in front of his opponent. And yeah, defending in certain way can leave you vulnerable to certain attacks, just like in boxing you can easily eat an uppercut with that sort of movement. Vitor pulled guard against Jacare which is a defensive move and got pounded doesn't mean that BJJ sucks.



Since when do boxers need to worry about kicks or bats? Might as well stop watching MMA then because by going into fights without weapons they're leaving themselves open to being stabbed.



Because limiting the rules to hands only gives boxers more freedom of movement and provides exciting 10-12 rounds of tactical warfare or a battle of endurance and will. The results in an aesthetically more pleasing sport which is also more technical, more demanding and gives a better indication who is the better man, the better competitor and the better athlete between the two people who participate in the sport. MMA is the pop music here because it's less technical, less tactical and more of a lottery. More people can understand it and it's also great for this short attention span generation because the fights aren't that long.

Limiting a duel to a set of specific rules is the most ancient of human traditions. Even real warfare has rules. Boxing is essentially pure fighting when you remove all the bitch moves, it's a gentleman's sport.



If boxing didn't exist MMA wouldn't exist today either. The only reason why it's not banned and underground is because MMA pioneers used boxing (an established sport with 100+ years of history) as a reference, claiming that their sport isn't more dangerous than boxing. Because boxing is culturally established the public accepted MMA.

Also, it was only after UFC was taken over by BOXING people like Dana White that progress was made because non-boxing people are clueless when it comes to promoting fights. That's the reason why all other combat sports can't even sustain themselves only boxing and UFC (thanks to a boxing aficionado Dana White) make real financial profit and real big money fights.

Basically I am super biased against boxing because of it's limiting rules set I admit it. What makes me mad most is when people dismiss Karate as a ineffective combat system yet love boxing it makes me laugh, you can fix Karate by resistance training you can't fix boxing's lack of techniques or habits from limiting techniques. When boxing fans say "oh mma fighters need to learn head movement etc" I argue against that bullshit.
Nothing to do with "if its on the streets!" More to do with I personally would only fight in rule sets that don't make me angry so the majority of boxing head movement would get me KO'd.
I dislike learning something that leaves me open to knee's / kicks etc On rules in warfare the ones who take advantage of the enemy using limited rules win.

I don't care if a sport is popular I just care if it is still around to put on shows.
Pancrase and other Japanese promotions which were around shortly after the first UFC were pro wrestling organisations and did well.
If PRIDE didn't have the Yakuza ties uncovered it might still be around drawing 70k+ audiences a show.
Apparently the Yakuza is very much involved in many companies so it isn't not normal for this to happen only it was exposed for other reasons. Has Dana drawn 90k people yet? Japan did.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Basically I am super biased against boxing because of it's limiting rules set I admit it. What makes me mad most is when people dismiss Karate as a ineffective combat system yet love boxing it makes me laugh, you can fix Karate by resistance training you can't fix boxing's lack of techniques or habits from limiting techniques. When boxing fans say "oh mma fighters need to learn head movement etc" I argue against that bullshit.
Nothing to do with "if its on the streets!" More to do with I personally would only fight in rule sets that don't make me angry so the majority of boxing head movement would get me KO'd.
I dislike learning something that leaves me open to knee's / kicks etc On rules in warfare the ones who take advantage of the enemy using limited rules win.

I don't care if a sport is popular I just care if it is still around to put on shows.
Pancrase and other Japanese promotions which were around shortly after the first UFC were pro wrestling organisations and did well.
If PRIDE didn't have the Yakuza ties uncovered it might still be around drawing 70k+ audiences a show.
Apparently the Yakuza is very much involved in many companies so it isn't not normal for this to happen only it was exposed for other reasons. Has Dana drawn 90k people yet? Japan did.

I get what you mean by limited combat being less practical in say a real fight than a sport or discipline where there's more to it. However, you're obviously overlooking something. When you limit a sport to only one thing, that means the best in the world have to be the very best at that one thing. What you end up with is a specialist that has not just developed but completely sharpened and refined skill in boxing (hand fighting). Most MMA fighters are only good to great at one thing, whether that's Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, boxing etc. Conor relies very heavily on his boxing and he wasn't anything at all in the amateurs and has never fought as a pro.

By limiting a skill set to only one thing you're actually forcing the combatants to become elite specialists compared to the others. Greco-Roman wrestling is limited to attacking just above the waist. That makes them specialists and the elite ones like Karelin will throw any man around regardless of how good their clinching is or what discipline it comes from.

 

[JayElectra]

Already faced better competition in Russell and Martinez . A rematch is in the works where he probably finishes Salido this time who as previously mentioned is one of boxing's biggest cheats.

The Salido loss does need to be properly contextualized, but Roman Martinez is certainly not tougher competition for Loma than the version of Salido he fought (Martinez isn't better than the current, more shopworn Salido). Stylistically, Russell Jr. arguably isn't, either (although, Russell Jr. is, in all likelihood, a better fighter than Salido at this point). Lomachenko's handlers allowing him into the ring with some like Salido (a very tough, experienced, and dirty fighter who is capable of fighting on the inside) in his second pro fight was just stupid (it's not Lomachenko's fault, though, and he has clearly worked on his infighting deficiencies that lost him that fight to the point where he'd be a justifiably heavy favourite over Salido).

 

[Lamfadha]

I get what you mean by limited combat being less practical in say a real fight than a sport or discipline where there's more to it. However, you're obviously overlooking something. When you limit a sport to only one thing, that means the best in the world have to be the very best at that one thing. What you end up with is a specialist that has not just developed but completely sharpened and refined skill in boxing (hand fighting). Most MMA fighters are only good to great at one thing, whether that's Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, boxing etc. Conor relies very heavily on his boxing and he wasn't anything at all in the amateurs and has never fought as a pro.

By limiting a skill set to only one thing you're actually forcing the combatants to become elite specialists compared to the others. Greco-Roman wrestling is limited to attacking just above the waist. That makes them specialists and the elite ones like Karelin will throw any man around regardless of how good their clinching is or what discipline it comes from.

I agree with limiting rules for training purposes or banning striking for grappling or grappling for striking to improve at one area. I just choose to be extremely biased against sports that are limited. I just personally dislike them.
It is preference and I get really heated because I am in the minority opinion and always get trashed for it so I tend to go from 1-100 in dissing it because why show respect when you get none?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I agree with limiting rules for training purposes or banning striking for grappling or grappling for striking to improve at one area. I just choose to be extremely biased against sports that are limited. I just personally dislike them.
It is preference and I get really heated because I am in the minority opinion and always get trashed for it so I tend to go from 1-100 in dissing it because why show respect when you get none?

That's cool. I just don't understand why someone would dislike any combat sport. You have very talented guys in every one of them. Could boxers just come over to MMA and wipe them out? Of course not. They'd have to put in the time and training in the other areas to round their games out or they'll just get beaten up everywhere else. Unless the boxer in question already has a background in other combat sports then that might be different but even then they'll still need to sharpen those skills up because they likely haven't used them in a long time.

There are many boxers in the pro ranks today and from the past that also trained and competed in kickboxing, Muay Thai and wrestling. It doesn't mean their skills are sharp enough to just step into a cage and beat the best MMA fighters there. If they have no defense to answer for the kicking, knees, elbows and ground game then they're in trouble.

 

[Lamfadha]

That's cool. I just don't understand why someone would dislike any combat sport. You have very talented guys in every one of them. Could boxers just come over to MMA and wipe them out? Of course not. They'd have to put in the time and training in the other areas to round their games out or they'll just get beaten up everywhere else. Unless the boxer in question already has a background in other combat sports then that might be different but even then they'll still need to sharpen those skills up because they likely haven't used them in a long time.

There are many boxers in the pro ranks today and from the past that also trained and competed in kickboxing, Muay Thai and wrestling. It doesn't mean their skills are sharp enough to just step into a cage and beat the best MMA fighters there. If they have no defense to answer for the kicking, knees, elbows and ground game then they're in trouble.

I don't dislike boxers. I dislike boxing. I think because they train for fights even with a limited style they are more effective than others with a more well rounded style without similar resistance training.
I like combat sports, I am a fight fan. I like music, I am a music fan. But I dislike some genres of the things I like.

I have tried to watch boxing I saw Lomanchenko fight and he was excellent but everytime he folded at the hips I couldn't stop hating it.
I try to revisit my biases a few times a year and try to fix them boxing and pop music remain something I cannot enjoy.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I don't dislike boxers. I dislike boxing. I think because they train for fights even with a limited style they are more effective than others with a more well rounded style without similar resistance training.
I like combat sports, I am a fight fan. I like music, I am a music fan. But I dislike some genres of the things I like.

I have tried to watch boxing I saw Lomanchenko fight and he was excellent but everytime he folded at the hips I couldn't stop hating it.
I try to revisit my biases a few times a year and try to fix them boxing and pop music remain something I cannot enjoy.

Well, there are MMA fighters that have been dominant champions that have used a multitude of defensive boxing techniques with great success in the sport. Anderson Silva, Cruz, Dillashaw, Conor just to name four of the best strikers in the sport. Remember when Anderson embarrassed Griffin? He did that with his boxing. You can take any technique from boxing or another combat sport and adapt them if you're clever enough and know how to add it to your game. Head movement does work and you can slip to the inside or the outside but you have to know when to use it and not to slip too far out when you do. If your hands are up when you outside slip then you can block a head kick if they're trying to get you to slip outside into one.

When Fedor KO'ed Arlovski he ducked and threw his overhand right. When he did this he blocked the incoming knee with his left hand. That was him attacking while being defensively responsible. Watch Fedor's left hand block the flying knee, even though Arlovski was already out at that point but it's the principle.