Loma vs Duran???

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eternaldarkness

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considering that a lot of people consider modern boxers to be more evolved (and loma being some kind of culmination of modern boxing) i was interested in what people thought loma chances would have been against duran.
 
I think Duran would stop him if he had the same fire as the 1st Leonard fight
 
Yacob said:
I think Duran would stop him if he had the same fire as the 1st Leonard fight
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i'm not really taking the piss, but it's a pet hate of mine when people make out that modern fighters are better because they are more evolved. watch any world class fight from these days and then go back and watch the likes of leonard vs duran.
compare the likes of inoue vs doniare too zamora vs zarate. inoue wouldn't make it too final bell against zamora or zarate.
p.s i'm not sure if he would have made the distance against a younger doniare.
 
eternaldarkness said:
i'm not really taking the piss, but it's a pet hate of mine when people make out that modern fighters are better because they are more evolved. watch any world class fight from these days and then go back and watch the likes of leonard vs duran.
compare the likes of inoue vs doniare too zamora vs zarate. inoue wouldn't make it too final bell against zamora or zarate.
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Lomachenko has more skills than Duran as far as just different techniques and ways to beat people. Lomachenko is a god level boxer.

But it's like the fight we were just talking about...Cervantes vs Locche. Locche was completely in another universe as far as boxing skill...but Cervantes was so strong and had such pressure that he just walked through Locche when he realized there wasn't enough pepper on Locches punches to do as much damage to him as he'd do to Locche.

I think Lomachenko would also outbox Duran for 3-5 rounds-ish....and then Duran would find him out the same way Cervantes found Locche out.

There's a point where toughness and raw strength will overwhelm a good boxer who lacks the same levels of strength and toughness

And Innoue is extremely talented. I don't know if i agree on that one...
 
Yacob said:
Lomachenko has more skills than Duran as far as just different techniques and ways to beat people. Lomachenko is a god level boxer.

But it's like the fight we were just talking about...Cervantes vs Locche. Locche was completely in another universe as far as boxing skill...but Cervantes was so strong and had such pressure that he just walked through Locche when he realized there wasn't enough pepper on Locches punches to do as much damage to him as he'd do to Locche.

I think Lomachenko would also outbox Duran for 3-5 rounds-ish....and then Duran would find him out the same way Cervantes found Locche out.

There's a point where toughness and raw strength will overwhelm a good boxer who lacks the same levels of strength and toughness

And Innoue is extremely talented. I don't know if i agree on that one...
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you would favour inoue to beat zarate? i think he's a bit irresponsible defensively and it would show against a fighter as skilled and powerful as zarate. he got caught early by donaire due to his over confidence. he was good enough to make the adjustments and out box donaire, but i truly believe if donaire had of targeted the body more he may have won (or walked on to a right and got koed).
either way it was a great fight and i hope inoue can make the slight adjustments to his game that will cement his place at the top.
 
eternaldarkness said:
you would favour inoue to beat zarate? i think he's a bit irresponsible defensively and it would show against a fighter as skilled and powerful as zarate. he got caught early by donaire due to his over confidence. he was good enough to make the adjustments and out box donaire, but i truly believe if donaire had of targeted the body more he may have won (or walked on to a right and got koed)
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Zarate and Innoue i guess are compatible at Bantamweight but it's one guy whos gone up to reach 118 from like fly or super fly and one guy who's the size of Alexis Arguello. I don't know....i don't think it be a definite ko for anyone.

Sometimes weight doesn't matter that much but with the size and weight favoring one guy it kinda takes the intrigue a bit.

I think fights like Lomachenko vs Locche is the type where you can allow more discrepancy in size and weight because it's a style clash at a crazy high skill level....with Innoue and Zarate it's like seeing whether a .22 or .22 magnum makes a bigger hole....they're basically the same gun just different size
 
Yacob said:
Zarate and Innoue i guess are compatible at Bantamweight but it's one guy whos gone up to reach 118 from like fly or super fly and one guy who's the size of Alexis Arguello. I don't know....i don't think it be a definite ko for anyone.

Sometimes weight doesn't matter that much but with the size and weight favoring one guy it kinda takes the intrigue a bit.

I think fights like Lomachenko vs Locche is the type where you can allow more discrepancy in size and weight because it's a style clash at a crazy high skill level....with Innoue and Zarate it's like seeing whether a .22 or .22 magnum makes a bigger hole....they're basically the same gun just different size
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loma vs locche now that would be an interesting contest. hard to image if it would be a masterclass or a bore fest, it would be an intriguing match, none the less.
 
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eternaldarkness said:
loma vs locche now that would be an interesting contest. hard to image if it would be a masterclass or a bore fest, it's would be an intriguing match none the less.
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I had that thought too....it might end up as a boring stalemate
 
Yacob said:
Lomachenko has more skills than Duran as far as just different techniques and ways to beat people. Lomachenko is a god level boxer.

But it's like the fight we were just talking about...Cervantes vs Locche. Locche was completely in another universe as far as boxing skill...but Cervantes was so strong and had such pressure that he just walked through Locche when he realized there wasn't enough pepper on Locches punches to do as much damage to him as he'd do to Locche.

I think Lomachenko would also outbox Duran for 3-5 rounds-ish....and then Duran would find him out the same way Cervantes found Locche out.

There's a point where toughness and raw strength will overwhelm a good boxer who lacks the same levels of strength and toughness

And Innoue is extremely talented. I don't know if i agree on that one...
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Duran outboxed top fighters 25 pounds above his peak weight class, while also being in the conversation for greatest pressure fighter of all time at lighter weight classes. I don't think we've seen Lomachenko do nearly enough to say he has a more diverse skillset than Roberto Duran.
 
Duran wrecks him. Come on, this is the guy who couldn't beat Salido vs one of the roughest, toughest lightweights to ever live.
 
Yacob said:
Lomachenko has more skills than Duran as far as just different techniques and ways to beat people. Lomachenko is a god level boxer.
..
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eh....

I can't say I agree with that. Lomachenko is pretty one dimensional. Duran really could box and brawl. He could fight off the front or back foot. Lomachenko can't. Once Duran started getting off and getting inside, it'd be all over for Lomachenko.
 
Yacob said:
Lomachenko has more skills than Duran as far as just different techniques and ways to beat people. Lomachenko is a god level boxer.

But it's like the fight we were just talking about...Cervantes vs Locche. Locche was completely in another universe as far as boxing skill...but Cervantes was so strong and had such pressure that he just walked through Locche when he realized there wasn't enough pepper on Locches punches to do as much damage to him as he'd do to Locche.

I think Lomachenko would also outbox Duran for 3-5 rounds-ish....and then Duran would find him out the same way Cervantes found Locche out.

There's a point where toughness and raw strength will overwhelm a good boxer who lacks the same levels of strength and toughness

And Innoue is extremely talented. I don't know if i agree on that one...
Click to expand...
i kinda think you are looking at boxing skills as a defensive thing. there are two parts to warfare, offence and defence. locche was far more "defensively" skilled than cervantes, but not as skilled offensively. foreman was a lot more skilled offensively than tyson (better at setting up punches). tyson over relied on his speed to land his shots, and only had fairly basic setups, which allowed him to be read fairly easily and out boxed by some fighters like holyfield (if you don't believe me watch an extremely overmatched don halpin frustrate and out box tyson (tyson still ended up blasting him)).
the reason halpin gave tyson so much trouble is he figured tyson queued off the jab to slip the right and land his left hook. so he stopped jabbing and started leading with the right, tyson walked into nearly every one.
 
eternaldarkness said:
i kinda think you are looking at boxing skills as a defensive thing. there are two parts to warfare, offence and defence. locche was far more "defensively" skilled than cervantes, but not as skilled offensively. foreman was a lot more skilled offensively than tyson (better at setting up punches). tyson over relied on his speed to land his shots, and only had fairly basic setups, which allowed him to be read fairly easily and out boxed by some fighters like holyfield (if you don't believe me watch an extremely overmatched don halpin frustrate and out box tyson (tyson still ended up blasting him)).
the reason halpin gave tyson so much trouble is he figured tyson queued off the jab to slip the right and land his left hook. so he stopped jabbing and started leading with the right, tyson walked into nearly every one.
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It's all a package. Defense is a harder skillset to develop than offense.

Locche was making a fool of Cervantes with little feints, parrys, ring generalship i guess you'd say.....the crowd literally laughed once or twice when Cervantes bit a feint

Locche was overall much more polished. Cervantes was just a zombie walking through anything until he finally broke Locche down.

It was like watching a small regiment defend a little city from a bad ass bigger battalion
 
Seano said:
eh....

I can't say I agree with that. Lomachenko is pretty one dimensional. Duran really could box and brawl. He could fight off the front or back foot. Lomachenko can't. Once Duran started getting off and getting inside, it'd be all over for Lomachenko.
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What do you mean by one dimensional?

Do you mean like he uses his offense as his defense and even a step further, he basically just stays in mid range? Like broad strokes....i can see what you'd mean.

But the closer you zoom in, the subtleties are definitely there.

He is a borderline savant when it comes to being an offensive boxer dipping in and out at angles and dictating range. He is SPECIAL and i can't see how you'd deny him of that, you're above the level of knowledge where I'd even believe you if you denied it. I don't see Duran on that level.

Duran is every bit as good(well, better actually) fighter than Loma is boxer but if either guy tried beating the other at his game, he'd get beat.
 
Duran smashes him in 10. But he's naturally bigger. It's like Floyd vs Leonard. If they were the same size I'd pick Ray in a competitive fight but because he's naturally bigger, Floyd would be anally fucked akin to Manuel Ferrara.
 
Seano said:
Duran wrecks him. Come on, this is the guy who couldn't beat Salido vs one of the roughest, toughest lightweights to ever live.
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Pretty much this. Duran knew how to do what it took to win, including fighting dirty. If Lomanchenko wasn't prepared for that, like he wasn't in the Salido fight, he would have a rough night. I also don't think Loma has enough sting on his punches to get Duran's respect.
 
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