Lloyd Irvin's students accused of brutal rape (Part 4)

[michaeltn]

he doesn't actually have to be the person holding her down be guilty of kidnapping, he was part of the whole group that was forcing themselves on her.

 

[madgrappler]

Anyone with that background could not pass a background check for Judo or for a teacher or a policeman/woman, etc.

And no one in their right mind would say, "Hey, I think I should take my kid to learn BJJ. My choices are: (a) a BJJ guy with respect and honor; or, (b) a BJJ guy involved in a gang rape. . . Mmmmm. . .which should I choose?" This is why I think it is important to keep this in the public eye.

Regardless, he should be banned from coaching at any IBJJF event for life.

agree

 

[madgrappler]

he doesn't actually have to be the person holding her down be guilty of kidnapping, he was part of the whole group that was forcing themselves on her.

then you have to go after the whole group, i would think. LAWYERS! WERE U AT?

 

[michaeltn]

I indeed could be wrong, not a lawyer. Just thinking of some previous cases I read about.

 

[voxom]

This will never happen. No public figure would subject himself to questioning by the general public in a situation like this. And why should he? The questions would likely paint him in the worst light imaginable, and his answers would just add fuel to the fire. For that matter, would you really believe his answers anyway?



Actually, he's answered several times that he has no direct relationship to Lloyd Irvin, and does not respresent him in any way.

where does he say he has no direct relationship with LI? i've seen him say that it doesn't matter what his relationship is and i've seen him say he's not getting paid or coached to say things on this fourm by LI, but i've never seen him say he has no relationship at all with LI

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

She came to the place and even the room of her own free will. As i understand it preventing her from leaving is false imprisonment, and even if there is not statute of limitations on that, it seems you'd have to prove he was the one preventing her from leaving, which I don't think the evidence supports.

The court of public opinion is the one he has to worry about now, IMHO. Maybe Jaq or Rambo can speak to it.

Well, I don't know the specifics of Virginia law (note my location) but generally false imprisonment is unlawful confinement without the person's consent. You don't have to physically restrain the person, threats or the like are sufficient. It doesn't need to be proved that he was the only one preventing her from leaving but he would have had to take some kind of act to prevent her from doing so.

Beyond that, I'm not going to comment on the Virginia statute of limitations for any crime, nor can I say whether it's applicable to this case. I can't say whether the evidence supports a charge of false imprisonment or not.

There's also a private cause of action for false imprisonment where you have to show that the the person intended to restrain and did something to restrain the person in a "bounded" area. That would be a private lawsuit, by the victim, not a criminal charge brought by the state. Again, can't comment on the applicability here.

 

[devnull]

How do you know? And why did you say the opposite before, that he just didn't feel that he owed anyone an explanation?

Why would the trial of the students prevent lloyd from talking about the 1989 case? Why? Again, give one plausible theory. Just one.

Theory only for your plausibility:

1. You can't have a PR and respond to questions regarding one without talking or having others question about the other.

2. He may not even discuss or bring up that


So you will have to wait until case is over.

 

[michaeltn]

people have been charged with kidnapping for simply refusing to allow someone to leave their house or business establishment

 

[lechien]

And what would prevent you from doing so? Hypothetically if you were a public figure?

absolutly nothing would prevent doing so apart the nature of LI business.

teaching martial arts, teaching on how to make money of running business that teach martial arts where kids are the main target market and parents have the cash.

As an acquitted rapist (especially knowing the details of the gang rape are available on the net), it would be business sepuku.

someone part of his business is about to release 9 DVD. That is a lot of money riding on it.

I wonder how it is going to affect his sales and how long will he take for him to rebrand his future DVD release under another name.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It's a HUGE story for American grappling, and we all like to gossip.

you guys like to gossip more than anything, I think im going to create a bjj vs judo thread, shit its being running pretty slow since the first thread came up lol...

 

[devnull]

agree

Banned for life with no criminal record is a bit harsh don't ya think? You guys are way over the top with hatred, like almost possessed by the devil.

 

[Goat Gobbler]

No-Gi Worlds, the tournament known primarily for the people that don't show up to compete in it. I said a BB Worlds Champion.

Oh, and if one no-gi BB champ makes TLI an Empire, what does that make The Avengers, Team Cicero Costha, and Soul Fighters, all teams that also won BB gold at no-gi Worlds.

Ich bitte dich, du Null, musst du dich SO anstrengen um TLI anzubeten? Tragisch...

Come on now, did you even see the event? This isn't 2008, people go to the no-gi worlds now. DJ had to rack up some legit wins over "BB Worlds Champions" to get that medal, don't try to downplay it like that. Dude beat lucas Lepri, Tussa, Clark Gracie, and more. it was a legit championship division. TLI is legit in competition, and in a few years all they're blue and purp;le belt champs will start becoming black belt champs. no doubt about that. it's the whole rape thing that has me disgusted and wondering if that team will even stick around.

 

[anaconda]

The rape prevention seminar he was promoting was free. Just FYI. The complaint about his posting YouTube videos to promote the event was that people cynically assumed he was doing it to bury the news stories about the NYE incident in Google results.

You read that correctly, this escalated because an instructor whose student was just raped (and had literally just met with that student) was trying to promote a free rape prevention seminar. Hard to imagine that happening under any other set of circumstances.

Cue an onslaught of people about to tell me that he doesn't actually care about his students or rape prevention at all.

That's a pretty good point and a great way to look at it from the other side.

Also, I think its fair to say that it would be hard to discuss from his point of view. If he was rehabilitated or completely changed from that event, its probably something he doesn't want to revisit.

I think the problem is the attitude he has cultivated has rubbed people the wrong way (3%, only results matter, etc) plus of course the whole image he has cultivated being so public.

So the problem is you can't make yourself super public for years, all about "I'm in your face you can't do anything about it" and then be quiet all of a sudden when real issues come up. Its hypocritical. And then, all the stuff that his people have been saying and doing is not helping his cause, as well as info about how Shultz and Maldonado acted after the incident.

 

[thapa]

It may be worth editing in the convictions of the 5 others charged in the 1989 rape and Lloyd's acquittal in the OP of each installment of this.

That's a crucial piece of information and its absence seems to fuel the "LI wasn't guilty" objections to some degree.

 

[ElKarlo]

Right now are on legal silence because of the trial. Silence means silence in full on everything related or not related.

That's aa BS reason if I ever heard one. He can talk about an unrelated case. He just CHOOSES not to

 

[devnull]

That's aa BS reason if I ever heard one. He can talk about an unrelated case. He just CHOOSES not to

In time you will be answered for your questions, just be patience.

 

[michaeltn]

It may be worth editing in the convictions of the 5 others charged in the 1989 rape and Lloyd's acquittal in the OP of each installment of this.

That's a crucial piece of information and its absence seems to fuel the "LI wasn't guilty" objections to some degree.

Normally the acquittal would be enough for most people to let this slide, BUT ...

1) The jury wanted to convict him of a lesser charge but was unable to
2) LLoyd admitted to wanting to participate but said he could not perform
3) the victim did testify Lloyd raped her

We are making a moral judgement based on the facts of the case.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Wouldn't further prosecution based on the same incident violate double jeopardy? Pretty sure the DA can't just keep bringing new charges until something sticks, which is why he was never charged with attempted rape. Can one of the lawyers address this?

Double jeopardy wouldn't apply here, if we're talking about false imprisonment, because that crime requires proof of completely different elements than rape. So it wouldn't count as being tried twice for the same offense. The Fifth Amendment says you can't be tried twice for the same offense, not for the same incident.

 

[robotsonic]

Come on now, did you even see the event? This isn't 2008, people go to the no-gi worlds now. DJ had to rack up some legit wins over "BB Worlds Champions" to get that medal, don't try to downplay it like that. Dude beat lucas Lepri, Tussa, Clark Gracie, and more. it was a legit championship division.

Calling yourself 'World Champion' is implying you are the best in the world, do the best in the world turn up at no gi worlds? Where was Marcelo?

Gi - Mundials

Nogi - ADCC.

They are the only two tournaments ALL the best guys turn up at, which means they're the only ones that matter.

 

[Goat Gobbler]

The truth is Lloyd surely won't make a statement about this unless it gets picked up by REAL media, like it's on TV and shit. He'll just ignore this, because this is easy enough to hide, and eventually (probably a few weeks from now) everyone here will lose steam, and nobody will be talking about this. If he does make a statement addressing it it will not go away, and it will be discussed like crazy, and the news will pick it up for sure. Just seems like from a business standpoint Lloyd has absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose by acknowledging the whole 1990 case popping up. Also in the future when this is all but forgotten and students hear something and look it up they will find these old threads of hearsay and speculation... eventually after searching for a while, but that's a lot different then finding a written statement or video from Lloyd himself admitting to the stuff.