Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by UsernameLOL, Dec 6, 2019.
^^^ Dumb as shit.
Way I see it, it could be 1 of 3 things:
1. Jackson-Wink actually encourages use of Turinabol. They have motive. If they train many successful mma fighters, including champions, then they make more money overall. A LOT more money. Plus all the prestige that comes with being one of the best training teams ever. And I'm sure they're smart enough to research stuff that is easily tested for and detected, and things that aren't. Turinabol would be a relatively low risk, high reward substance for them to push to give their fighters the edge. So I wouldn't be too shocked if it was part of the protocol over there.
2. Training partners at Jackson - Wink encouraging each other to use the stuff. From the obvious benefits and lack of detection.
3. Almost every fighter in pro mma these days is on the stuff....because of the benefits and lack of detection. So most fighters at most teams might actually be (or have been) on the stuff.
I think there's truth to the idea that a lot of fighters juice, heck Jones even fought the TRT-rex on short notice.
But the thing is not all steroids are the same. The kind of stuff a prelim fighter can get his hands on and the kind of stuff Jones as a longtime, multimillionaire champ can get his hands on are very different. I wouldn't mind steroids in MMA if there was someway to standardize the advantage but as is I think the wealthy fighters get a huge advantage.
he also tested positive for clomiphine, same as Jones
the forum auto embeds google docs, but honestly, its a pain in the arse because it takes forever for the threads to load.
that said, if you need the data there are already people maintaining lists of ped failures so theres no point making work for yourself.
A lot of people complained. He got a free pass because the fight was important. That was absolutely controversial discussed.
I dont know why people even get irritated anymore with Jones. He has carte blanche to cheat and he does so. He paints a clear roadmap to money and fame in the UFC. Cheat your ass of and if they capture you after got the title you won the race.
Just diuretics and Pre-WEC I think...
Don’t even know if he was at Jax back then
Not everyone who takes Tbol is from Jackson Wink, but everyone from Jackson Wink takes Tbol
Victor Conte weighed in on the subject. Jon's levels were well below DCs, Jon was obviously using something and DC was a possibility but it could be explained with his age and the toll camp takes on his body.
Victor felt that DC was most likely clean and that Jon was definitely on something. Victor has ZERO skin in the game and I'll take his opinion over some bias Sherdogger any day.
I do believe DC roided in the Olympics though, they all do.
Thanks bro. Links?
U mean shogun rashad rampage machida where all clean and innocent?average age was 31 years old for those 4.u mean a 24 year old jones is the only cheater.these monsters where all clean and innocent
my current usada sheet (2019-q4). theres a tab in there for violations that has every usada violation detailed including test dates etc
breakdown of every incident
part 1 https://taintedsupplements.wordpress.com/2016/11/29/the-ufc-usada-incident-list/
part 2 https://taintedsupplements.wordpress.com/2019/08/27/the-ufc-usada-incident-list-101/
then theres joe's list of all mma failures, but he stopped updating that about a year ago
(remove the spaces in that link, put them in to stop the forum embedding it)
Thanks I'll dig through it if need be. The only stat I'm looking for really is how many UFC fighters have failed a test out of everyone that's fought in the UFC. Also I'm curious how many people have fought in the UFC.
my spreadsheet, the various summary tabs give you everything, breakdowns by nation, weight class, average age, as well as numbver of athletes from each category that have been in the testing pool.
#violations tab is a summary of everything
violations is the raw data for the violations
suspended testing is breakdown of testing of athletes with violation.
note, my sheet only covers data for the USADA program since mid 2015
Thanks, it's a good place to start to find what I want. I'll still have to do some work but you saved me a ton of time.
@fzoid4454 You proposed that the explanation for both Dolidze and Jones positive tests for turinabol m3 metabolite were from shared contaminated supplements. I believe your reasoning was the small/trace amounts of metabolites found. Are you willing to give that same benefit of doubt to some other 200-250 athletes who tested positive internationally from the beginning of 2015 to the end of 2017?
Here's a video with a talk given by (Dr. Christiane Ayotte, director of WADA lab in Montreal)
The relevant parts are at at 27:27 and 29:04
Roughly 200-250 Athletes tested positive for Turinabol m3 metabolites from 2015 - 2017.
All of them were in the pg/ml range. With the average amount found being 40 pg/ml. Lowest being 1.3 pg/ml, highest being 120 pg/ml.
Here are Jones' findings
Does your shared contaminated supplements explanation seem less plausible now?
Granted this is a surface level analysis.
It may be the case that x amount of athletes were sanctioned based on their results and y were not based on their results. This would be helpful to know.
Also, the MRPL may just apply to the parent drug or it may also apply to the metabolites. I do not know. If it applies to the metabolites then all i can say it is artificially high and would basically exonerate anyone who has ever tested positive for turinabol metabolites.
Actually, I didn’t propose anything. At those kinds of barely detectable, under the positive threshold results, it could be anything, including cheating. I’m merely pointing out that your “must be dirty from the top down explanation” isn’t more or less valid than any other fact-less conjecture. I haven’t seen an explanation of how Jones tests at those low levels of long-term metabolites, tests negative, and then positive without ever having short-term or mid-term metabolites showing up in those other intervening negative tests.
I noticed you didn’t respond when I asked why you ignored the most obvious explanation for how Jones would test negative, and then show positive concentrations later. So now the question is why you ignore the obvious, and ignore questions about why you ignore the obvious.
But Dolidze take boner pills?
So we had Jon, Jones and Mr.Bones now?
Bro, it was just some pico pulsing, from tainted water, drank from a tainted fountain, in a tainted bathroom, under the octagon, at the gym.
Separate names with a comma.